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Post by russ on Apr 9, 2019 7:11:26 GMT
I read an article with Perez in RLW and he's just what we need, feel the same about Elstone.
There was a fascinating quote from the 1950's with the same silly arguments about expansion that are going on now.
I always thought that RL was an inovative sport in all sorts of ways but has it ever ever had enough vision and strategy about what it's future should look like?
Until these two came along and at this same moment.
I suppose the question is will the clubs in the championship share the vision of the future or the barriers of today and yesterday?
One aside here but related is that the entire England side could be playing in the NRL soon never to be seen on these shores apart from internationals and until SL is more attractive that's what will continue.
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Post by JJR on Apr 9, 2019 7:33:45 GMT
Perez seems to think the sport will really take off in the USA. If/ when it does the top players will probably head there not Oz because of the money spent on sport in the US.
So we' could have Salford/Swinton/ Rochdale/ Oldham/ Leigh/ Widnes/Saints/Warrington/Wigan on a semi pro basis and a Lancashire Cup...play Cumbrian sides for a day out near the Lakes. Now wouldn't that be innovative...and lots of local derbys.
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Post by kitch on Apr 9, 2019 9:59:37 GMT
One school of thought doing the rounds on twitter is that the next round of TV deals could be critical. There is an argument that the broadcasters will be potentially far more interested in a league that contains all the expansion teams, even if that's the championship. If you have well backed clubs in the championship, they will attract top players away from SL. I think we've already seen this effect especially with Toronto, but to a lesser extent with Toulouse. People bang on about declining attendences in Super League, but my reckoning is that Chmapionship crowds are way up on ten years ago, now it's a much more vibrant competition. Cross division cup shocks used to be about once every five years, now we get several every year it seems. The gap is far smaller than it used to be, and if the championship admit a couple more expansion teams with the budget to attract players away from superleague, there will be nothing between the lower two thirds of super league and the top half of the championship on quality. You could potentially move to having the SL and the Championship as two equal weighted competitions with playoffs between them at the end of the season. If the Championship lands a decent TV deal, they could overtake.
My view is that the game desperately needs to embrace expansion, not by sticking a pin in the map and throwing central funding at it, but where you have a entrepreneur who is willing to back a project, giving them a big green light. They know their markets best. I suspect Salford will probably be relegated to make way for one if the current structure survives, and I would ultimately regard this as a positive, because our best hope of long term survival is as part of a game that is growing, not trying to hang on in a declining market where we are one of the weakest teams. Our best hope of making the club big again is for the game generally to become much more fashionable, and the huge untapped market of Manchester to take an interest. That is more likely to happen in a dynamic Northern Hemisphere league than it is in a parochial traditional clubs only context. My ideal is for a healthy mixture of history and progress, traditional clubs doing well alongside a growing range of vibrant expansion clubs. Ideally expansion means more clubs, not replacement clubs.
And now, Rochdale in the cup...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 10:28:03 GMT
Very good post and I completely agree.
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Post by russ on Apr 9, 2019 12:04:48 GMT
One school of thought doing the rounds on twitter is that the next round of TV deals could be critical. There is an argument that the broadcasters will be potentially far more interested in a league that contains all the expansion teams, even if that's the championship. If you have well backed clubs in the championship, they will attract top players away from SL. I think we've already seen this effect especially with Toronto, but to a lesser extent with Toulouse. People bang on about declining attendences in Super League, but my reckoning is that Chmapionship crowds are way up on ten years ago, now it's a much more vibrant competition. Cross division cup shocks used to be about once every five years, now we get several every year it seems. The gap is far smaller than it used to be, and if the championship admit a couple more expansion teams with the budget to attract players away from superleague, there will be nothing between the lower two thirds of super league and the top half of the championship on quality. You could potentially move to having the SL and the Championship as two equal weighted competitions with playoffs between them at the end of the season. If the Championship lands a decent TV deal, they could overtake. My view is that the game desperately needs to embrace expansion, not by sticking a pin in the map and throwing central funding at it, but where you have a entrepreneur who is willing to back a project, giving them a big green light. They know their markets best. I suspect Salford will probably be relegated to make way for one if the current structure survives, and I would ultimately regard this as a positive, because our best hope of long term survival is as part of a game that is growing, not trying to hang on in a declining market where we are one of the weakest teams. Our best hope of making the club big again is for the game generally to become much more fashionable, and the huge untapped market of Manchester to take an interest. That is more likely to happen in a dynamic Northern Hemisphere league than it is in a parochial traditional clubs only context. My ideal is for a healthy mixture of history and progress, traditional clubs doing well alongside a growing range of vibrant expansion clubs. Ideally expansion means more clubs, not replacement clubs. And now, Rochdale in the cup... There's a lot in that. I look at how the sport is held back, not because it's parochial, but because it's in England and doesn't have a power base in London.
If we can attract NY and American investment it will circumvent the stereotyping and dismissing of our sport that is all London seems capable of and always has.
Having SL players taken by NY but seeing them in SL seems preferable to them going to the NRL to me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 12:17:07 GMT
I've said this many times before, get a foothold in the US and watch RL take of big style, it has to be done correctly and fairly ( am not a Toronto fan but them working their way up is perfectly fair), the RFL needs to be savvy with the fixtures, Toronto and NY away games against the same visiting team in the same week to allow fans to attend both is a bare minimum.
I personally think the only expansion team in the UK can now be a Cumbrian team, the trouble with that is that the fans of the current teams up there are highly unlikely to all jump ship and support one team for the whole county. Personally I'd love a competitive Welsh SL team but it's just not going to happen.
Don't really see any expansion teams in Europe working except Dublin (again I've gone into this countless times) as there is no real culture of rugby (League or Union which is important).
As an aside for all this have Toronto actually played a game in Canada yet this season?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 12:33:00 GMT
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Post by russ on Apr 9, 2019 13:42:38 GMT
It is interesting that the article from Total says having NY and Ottawa might weaken the negotiating position because it would mean not one more Sky subscriber. And yet having a huge name like New York is mentioned has a plus in the TV deal! I find that strange. Another point was over a quarter of the SL might be from abroad and that means less away fans, which is also very odd from a sport with declining away fans of those who live round the corner. Also having a 16 team SL would prevent that being a consideration.
The point is that the view is always based on the least RL can hope for rather than the most it should aim at.
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Post by bonitared on Apr 9, 2019 17:42:55 GMT
It has to be a different consortium for each overseas club. One entrepreneur backing the game’s entire overseas expansion would be bobbins. I hope the RFL are working on that basis.
I thought the best comment was that these guys do know their own markets so you’d hope the locations make sense.
As regards the tv deal,it is indeed vital if Superleague is to continue on a full time basis. However,I don’t think we can allow the broadcasters to determine where we have franchises as that will prevent its evolution. TV channels have a massive amount of space to fill,the trick is to have professionals who have the skill set to maximise TV deal opportunities. That’s where Scudamore was so effective at the FAPL. We all thought that was where Barwick would add a great deal of value. Waste of space.
I just hope that the parochial view doesn’t prevail and we do embrace overseas opportunities,provided the business plan stacks up. Do the RFL inspire confidence that they can get this right ?
On a bright note,I recently met a guy from Toronto who had zero interest in our sport but was clued up on the team and the new ground. It has created a real buzz there so clearly the entrepreneur did know his market. Shame about the weather there !
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Post by russ on Apr 9, 2019 18:03:00 GMT
It has to be a different consortium for each overseas club. One entrepreneur backing the game’s entire overseas expansion would be bobbins. I hope the RFL are working on that basis. I thought the best comment was that these guys do know their own markets so you’d hope the locations make sense. As regards the tv deal,it is indeed vital if Superleague is to continue on a full time basis. However,I don’t think we can allow the broadcasters to determine where we have franchises as that will prevent its evolution. TV channels have a massive amount of space to fill,the trick is to have professionals who have the skill set to maximise TV deal opportunities. That’s where Scudamore was so effective at the FAPL. We all thought that was where Barwick would add a great deal of value. Waste of space. I just hope that the parochial view doesn’t prevail and we do embrace overseas opportunities,provided the business plan stacks up. Do the RFL inspire confidence that they can get this right ? On a bright note,I recently met a guy from Toronto who had zero interest in our sport but was clued up on the team and the new ground. It has created a real buzz there so clearly the entrepreneur did know his market. Shame about the weather there ! The parochial view like Brexit is in the ascendency at the moment
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Post by bonitared on Apr 9, 2019 18:08:32 GMT
This forum is a Brexit free zone 💤💤💤
😂😂😂
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Post by russ on Apr 9, 2019 18:10:06 GMT
This forum is a Brexit free zone 💤💤💤 😂😂😂 Parochial is as parochial does. |
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Post by JJR on Apr 9, 2019 18:29:09 GMT
Why don't they set up an American League a little more slowly and steadfastly. Secure the base, develop the national team.
Sorry I'd rather watch Salford v Leigh than Salford v New York. Watched all the varieties of London & Welsh teams, without enthusiasm. Surely the way forward is via amateur, semi pro, pro with national teams in lower divisions, built up with a plan steadily. Toronto, Toulouse, Catalan or even London only seem exciting initially.
Catalan at Easter at home really drew the crowds: not.
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Post by bonitared on Apr 9, 2019 18:29:35 GMT
This forum is a Brexit free zone 💤💤💤 😂😂😂 Parochial is as parochial does. Forrest Gump 1994 |
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Post by buxtonred60 on Apr 9, 2019 19:32:35 GMT
Do people really think that by having all these extra teams, ie, new york , toronto, etc is going to attract any more fans to watch the game at the Grounds, and not on the tele, you are living in cloud cuckoo land,
You have the saints owner this week, saying the 1,500 tickets they sold is great for the club and the game, it is the fans going for a piss up in spain for a week, with a match thrown in, does he really think he is going to get 1,500 fans, going to watch, the catalans, toulouse, new york, toronto, Belgrade, and who ever the rfl decide to let in.
The fans will choose 1 game per season to go to, at the moment it is the catalans because they can get cheap flights to spain.
Plus you only have so many players to go round, these new clubs are not bringing any players into the game, all they are doing is paying the players more than other teams can pay them, because they have got rich backers, pumping money into the teams they own.
so all they are doing is forcing the smaller clubs into the lower leagues, ie, salford, wakefield, Hkr, london, and dont think a few of the big clubs will still be in super league in 5 yrs time because they wont be.
so if you as a salford fan are happy to watch your rugby on the tele feel free to back this load of tripe,
I can say one thing salford will be in the first or second division in 3 yrs that is if we are still a club, if this is allowed to happen.
so dont come crying to me or shouting from the roof tops, in 3 yrs when the club you say you support are no more.
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