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Post by JJR on Apr 12, 2019 6:28:09 GMT
I'm sure some of the clubs with rich histories, league and cup winners like Widnes, Leigh, Swinton, Oldham, and the Cumbrian clubs, who are vanishing into oblivion might tend to have a different view.
If we were building on a solid base I might agree with you but we seem to be destroying the base in the chase to spread the word to far flung shores where the message, as it's done in the past as in Wales etc might just die away. Then we'd be left with little or nothing.
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Post by russ on Apr 12, 2019 7:25:14 GMT
Someone had to mention Marwan didn't they and up it all pops regular as clockwork!
Marwan = you still have a Club
No Marwan = No Club
I think the two presentations were very different I'm sure the difference was so much quality as point of attack, Perez is very aware of the gripes and moaning dispostion of the sport so he addressed alot of that nonsense to douse their fears. NY went for the big sell of the Big Apple both very understandable.
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Post by bonitared on Apr 12, 2019 10:01:45 GMT
I'm sure some of the clubs with rich histories, league and cup winners like Widnes, Leigh, Swinton, Oldham, and the Cumbrian clubs, who are vanishing into oblivion might tend to have a different view. If we were building on a solid base I might agree with you but we seem to be destroying the base in the chase to spread the word to far flung shores where the message, as it's done in the past as in Wales etc might just die away. Then we'd be left with little or nothing. Firstly,I agree with Russ about Marwan. He came,he irritated,he went but,in between , he put money in and saved the club for the next generation of management. Didn’t he also fund part of Jackson and Joey. He’s gone so maybe we can file that one. As regards the clubs with rich histories,including us, economics apply. Station Road,Watersheddings,Hilton Park all gone. I suspect the North American experiment will ultimately fail,although there are a number of clubs in Central and SW Florida that are growing so I suspect this applies throughout the US. That’s good news. The RFL, lacking in quality as they are,are still damned if they do and damned if they don’t. These proposals must be given a fair hearing,aggressive due diligence and widespread use of the bullshitometer. If they come through that then they deserve a chance |
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Post by JJR on Apr 12, 2019 11:32:48 GMT
I think the issue is
Should they build from the bottom up ie grass roots or Look for the short term big bucks
Sadly RL is all about short term opportunism, grabbing the short term money when they can and not planning properly to establish a base and secure the future. Hence we keep failing in the hope that one day someone will accidentally find the golden Rugby ball.
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Post by bonitared on Apr 12, 2019 12:04:24 GMT
In an ideal world I agree that you build from grassroots.
In practice,if you want overseas investment and interest they won’t do that.
Catch 22.
So you give them a leg up provided the business plan is robust.
The grass roots have been in place here for many years and it’s found a level
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Post by redunderthebed on Apr 12, 2019 12:16:15 GMT
I don’t understand this idea that something is being ‘done’ to the heartland clubs that is killing them. Rugby league clubs have failed to engage with their communities, failed to get people through the gates, failed to get a product that the TV companies are interested in. The RFL is undoubtedly lacking in long term strategy but that is a reflection of the protectionism and short term thinking of the club owners.
The RFL is changing - it’s engagement is improving with community clubs, developing pathways for youngsters into pro clubs and back again, developing coaches, offering funding for facilities as they build towards the 2022 World Cup. Not perfect and not getting much attention but important building blocks.
All this is driven by a lack of cash and funding. This is a responsibility of the RFL, SL, and ALL clubs. The amateur structures still have a paranoid defensive approach to working with the RFL and pro clubs which is a problem for a joined up future.
RL has existed at amateur level in the US for years but there is no way a pro league could be built there yet. The long term ambition of having a globally successful sport has to take advantage of here and now opportunities. They won’t all work but neither will all heartland clubs survive
Whenever a heartland club goes bust it is seen as a scandal and proof that the RFL spends money on expansion rather than heartland. When an expansion club goes bust it is proof that expansion doesn’t work. It appears however badly run a heartland club is then it is always the RFLs fault they fail.
People refusing to see evidence and refusing to look beyond what they’re used to is what will end up killing RL. Not expansion
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Post by russ on Apr 12, 2019 13:03:06 GMT
People refusing to see evidence and refusing to look beyond what they’re used to is what will end up killing RL. Not expansion Terrific post rutb and I feel sorry to shorten it like above but that last sentence says it all for mine. Looking how change might damage what we have now when what we have is disappearing before our eyes. What we have had hasn't been good enough if it was we'd have had clubs across the UK because we have the best product by far, but that didn't help betamax and it isn't enough on it's own. Interest seems to be up at present and I'm not sure if that isn't, in part, due to having TWP around and it's livened things up and reminded a few people about the game.
How can people not see having the Big Apple in town as ready made marketing for a sport that appears to be stuck in it's black & white photo fom the 1960's and 70's.
I'm bored when I see we're playing Saints or whoever for the 15th time this season and I want something new! T O TWP NY Ottawa names to conjure with and market about.
Also I can't believe this chance will come again.
All this start from the bottom/grassroots twaddle for a team and sporting culture based on millions of dollars and world wide brands is complete bullocks.
If this doesn't drag London out of its middle of the twentieth century stereotyped outlook nothing will and at least they'll be exposed for what they are.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 14:35:22 GMT
The main thing that is killing RL and the clubs is the TV scheduling that has seen thousands of fans at all clubs give up season tickets. Once you lose them they aren't coming back.
Next on the chopping block seems to be the away fan, who will soon be required to do a couple of US trips plus Toronto and Catalan to watch their side.
The fans of clubs who end up making way for the expansion clubs will also lose interest and another couple of top flight clubs will become lower division also rans.
Add to this the bizarre loop fixtures and magic weekend giving a lob sided fixture list and there is plenty to work on before throwing in a couple of expansion clubs.
A 10 team SL with all the expansion clubs would probably be a success. The gap between them and the rest though will become a lot wider though along the way. Good for SL no doubt but I'm not sure that it will be good for the sport overall.
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Post by JJR on Apr 12, 2019 14:37:01 GMT
RUTB and Russ I love you're optimism. Wales and lots of other initiatives have failed sadly but time will tell on that. Our Catalan fixtures at Easter have been a total disaster. I just can't get excited when watching Toronto or Catalan or Toulouse or is it an Oz fifths 17.
If you can see it lasting and like watching lower grade Oz players great.
I like genuine rivalry. Leigh in the Cup, Wigan on Easter Monday, excite me: as opposed to Catalan on Easter Monday or of course there was Catalan away Easter Monday: they'd been home for 5 days, we got there the day before. It's ok for one trip but then
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 14:48:31 GMT
The thing that people are not addressing is that there is already a grass roots level league in the USA (www.usarl.org).
What must be done is that this league must thrive alongside any new Major League teams over there, it is typical of the RFL that when TWP joined the league there was no caveat that there must be investment in grass roots RL in Canada is it just simply doesn't exist.
Can you imagine the NY Knights playing a league game before NY take on Wigan and the opportunities this would offer to the lower leagues in America.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 14:55:27 GMT
I've said it countless times the RFL must be made to do this properly, if there is 2 North American teams in the league each team must face them away in a block.
EG.
Toronto V Salford Sunday
NY V Salford Friday
That way fans can make a decent break of things and can travel between the 2 games easily.
What I can see happening is that the Magic Weekend will 1 day be played over there, imagine if they put it on at the Red Bull Arena and got a decent number of travelling fans to go, the publicity for our game would be invaluable.
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Post by JJR on Apr 12, 2019 15:01:33 GMT
Major league teams...1 in th US potentially...eventually.
How about GB v New Zealand in Denver? Should attract good crowds, good sponsorship, make money and enhance US rugby league?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 15:29:42 GMT
Major league teams...1 in th US potentially...eventually. How about GB v New Zealand in Denver? Should attract good crowds, good sponsorship, make money and enhance US rugby league? So if it's 1 then they need to help encourage RL to grow and develop in the USA, as for Denver it was a farce, fans won't travel to watch a 1 off International, though I do think they would travel more to watch their own team, also NY is a doddle to get to where as Denver is much more tricky. |
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Post by JJR on Apr 12, 2019 15:50:41 GMT
So how many teams shall we develop n the US? Remember when Toulouse Toronto Catalan Ottawa and New York get into SL alongside London we might need foreign teams to promote SL up north as we'll only have 6 between Yorkshire and Lancashire; assuming Newcastle not in then.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 15:57:07 GMT
So how many teams shall we develop n the US? Remember when Toulouse Toronto Catalan Ottawa and New York get into SL alongside London we might need foreign teams to promote SL up north as we'll only have 6 between Yorkshire and Lancashire; assuming Newcastle not in then. You're assuming that the league will not increase in size or change it's format/structure.
Say we went to 6 teams that would then make for ample games so that everyone just plays each other once home and away.
Look let's face it f SL stays the way it is we will drown as you can't keep treading water ad infinitum, it would obviously be better to develop teams in the UK but that's been tried and it just doesn't catch on, next step Europe (geographically easier to accommodate) but most of the continent simply has no culture of high impact sports like NFL/RL/RU and I doubt it would catch on in anything like the right amounts.
Like it or not teams overseas offer our dieing sport a chance at a new market and to help improve it's appeal globally.
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