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Post by bonitared on Oct 5, 2018 15:01:44 GMT
I fly now & again to Toronto on business What the game should be doing is fixing Leigh, instead of promoting the game for TV, I understand the game needs sponsorship but this is not the way forward. Come on London, the odds are stacked against you. For the record,I think the Toronto experiment will ultimately fail but I could certainly be wrong and it’s worth a shot. Fix Leigh ? How ,exactly ? Why not Hunslet ? All clubs,including the Wath Brow and Egremonts of this world find their level. If they can sustain full time,or part time,or just amateur then that’s natural selection. It’s the way it should be. I hope Leigh return to former glories but if they can’t sustain a full time squad then that’s the way it is,as it would be for us. Having said all that,I hope London win |
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Post by hillbillyred on Oct 5, 2018 15:19:33 GMT
" instead of promoting the game for TV"
Sorry Gunner, but any sport, be it Association Football or Marbles, will not thrive unless it has a T.V. deal(and soon, an Internet deal). Without Sky, we would be in increased and fatal decline. At the very least, without the promotion of visual media, interest would lapse and we would not get players as the young would be attracted to other sports.
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Post by redunderthebed on Oct 5, 2018 17:41:33 GMT
Why is it the RFLs job to ‘fix’ Leigh, salford, Workington, London, toronto or any other individual club? That’s up to the club to do. Leigh have had the same chances as every other club. I hope Leigh can be saved and they have a reasonably sized and very loyal following so I’m sure I’m the fullness of time they will be back as will Bradford
There are 100+ years of RL in Leigh. They have 2 strong amateur clubs who have hundreds of juniors playing at a really high standard. The relationship between the Centurions and Leigh East and Miner Rangers is terrible. Why should the governing body be responsible for a club that has every advantage a pro sports club can have and have failed to take any of them?
If anyone can come up with a financially viable system that only includes clubs from Lancashire, Yorkshire and Cumbria then let’s hear it. We aren’t producing enough players in england. If we want an international competition that is more than 3 countries we have got to expand.
Look at the Super 12s (or whatever it’s called now) in RU. It has clubs from Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Argentina, Japan. It’s the biggest club comp in union. The Heineken cup in Europe has been really popular too
There is loads the sport needs to improve. Need to invest a lot more in grass roots across the world but they don’t have enough cash and without professional clubs there is nowhere for the kids to go when they develop into good adult players. Toronto gives Canada that chance. There is an improving amateur scene in North America. Toronto could rap into that. I want rugby league to be recognised as the best sport in the world. It won’t while it is only played in 3 English counties, 2 Australian states, Papua New Guinea and a handful of French and NZ towns.
I have never been a fan of the way Paul Rowley gets his teams to play but he won’t be the coach there forever. I hope he can change his style as he seems like a decent guy when I’ve chatted to him away from the game. But I won’t hold my breath!
I really want Toronto to become successful, I’d like London back in SL, I hope Sheffield, Newcastle and one or more of the Cumbrian clubs can rise again, that Toulouse join Catalans in SL, a welsh club, an Irish club alongside us and other current SL clubs. A 16 to 20 team division with teams from those countries and lower leagues that give routes for players and clubs
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Post by JJR on Oct 5, 2018 18:00:27 GMT
Can't wait for the Canadian national side. How many Canadians play for Toronto?
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Post by chang on Oct 5, 2018 18:09:37 GMT
Can't wait for the Canadian national side. How many Canadians play for Toronto? They’ve only been in existence for 2 years, give them chance. They can’t magic homegrown players overnight. If/when the sport gains traction over there and becomes popular amateur teams should start forming and then the player pool will start to form. |
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Post by redunderthebed on Oct 5, 2018 18:25:31 GMT
Can't wait for the Canadian national side. How many Canadians play for Toronto? One I believe. Quinn Ngawati. First ever Canadian pro-RL player Seemed like a decent fella when I met him last year when he gave up a Friday night to do a presentation for kids at a local amateur club after Salford failed to provide any players Us Salford fans need to be careful about mocking the lack of home grown players in other teams. How many Salford born RL pros have been produced? How long has it taken the Canadian union team to become competitive? 30 years? |
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Post by vin on Oct 5, 2018 21:03:50 GMT
Can't wait for the Canadian national side. How many Canadians play for Toronto? They’ve only been in existence for 2 years, give them chance. They can’t magic homegrown players overnight. If/when the sport gains traction over there and becomes popular amateur teams should start forming and then the player pool will start to form.
There has been a Canadian international team for over 30 years. There's also a women's international side. Rugby league did not suddenly appear because Canucks were beguiled by Paul Rowley and Adam Fogerty, it's there because there were enthusiasts supporting the game.
This thread seems to give the impression that rugby requires cash from above for it to work. But you can't realistically talk about natural selection when there's agendas floating about to expand the game outside the heartlands and to pick and choose whom to bail out (Bradford yes, Leigh, no).
Although cash from the RFL would be welcome, of course, Wath Brow survives because the good folk of Cleator support it, and go to the social club after the match. And they look after the place, wash the gear, paint the lines. And proper rugby is played in the schools. With respect, I find remarks like "clubs like Wath Brow and Egremont will find their own level" a bit dismal, dismissive and a tiny bit patronising. There'll be rugby played in Cumbria long after TWP has gone the way of PSG.
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Post by redunderthebed on Oct 6, 2018 0:02:23 GMT
So, Vin, are you saying that with the right backing Wath Brow would be a Super League side? All community clubs rely on volunteers doing those things and hats off to everyone that does. Plenty of people put hundreds of hours each in at the club I’m involved with. It’s fantastic and I love it. And I don’t feel in the least bit threatened or put out by Toronto or any other SL side.
The fighting between amateur and professional clubs within RL is one of the biggest things to have held the sport back since at least the 1980s. The kids who turn up are often fans of and aspire to play at their favourite club. It’s one of the things that inspire them to turn up in the first place. SL clubs need to do a lot more with their local amateur teams
And, by the way, People also volunteer at sem-pro and pro clubs. Including Toronto
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Post by bonitared on Oct 6, 2018 4:27:35 GMT
I think Vin was referring to my post.
I apologise if you think my reference to Wath Brow etc was patronising. My intention was the opposite,I was being complementary.
My point was that many clubs revel in the level at which they’re playing. In the mpg year we went to Batley and I found it uplifting.
A community club with everyone pitching in and a real enjoyment and sense of community,exactly as you describe in the amateur game.
I do agree that assistance has been indiscriminate,why Bradford and not Leigh. It should be neither.
My main point is that,if a club can’t sustain full time,or part time then it should drop down to the next level and let those deserving of a chance have that chance.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 6:48:08 GMT
The very real problem with Toronto and Catalans and ultimately any other teams based in Super League from outside the UK is that there is always going to be a problem policing and implementing the salary cap due to exchange rate fluctuations.
Think at some point this season it was noticed that Catalans have quite a sizable chunk of money to spend over other SL clubs because what they were deigned to be able to spend has increased due to the Brexit currency changes.
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Post by redunderthebed on Oct 6, 2018 8:11:56 GMT
That’s easily fixable MR. Set it in advance in each country’s currency. So set the 2020 cap based on exchange rate now. This time next year set 2021 and get all 3 caps to meet according to how they’ve changed so one country doesn’t get all the advantage/disadvantage
And it cuts both ways of course - if the uk ever get over brexit and the currency recovers it will make it much harder for Catalans and Toronto if we don’t change it
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Post by dixon13 on Oct 6, 2018 11:21:13 GMT
I personally hope Toronto come up.Simply because they finished top of the league.As for the argument about the RFL know they are not responsible for Leigh or Salford's salvation but they are responsible for running the game.In my opinion at the moment they do rather poorly.What did Woods achieve to warrant is sky high salary no pun intended.
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Post by russ on Oct 6, 2018 13:25:45 GMT
This is unusual RL fans looking for problems.
Are we only optimistic now if our club is doing well or might do well?
If the sport doesn't prosper none of our clubs will either.
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Post by vin on Oct 6, 2018 15:46:48 GMT
Heyup,
Bonita.
I'm sure you weren't patronising, and I only meant to say that it came across that way to me. No apology needed, old horse.
Red under t'bed.
I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the infighting between professional and amateur clubs. We've been shooting ourselves in the foot for donkey's years. But to answer your question...
A team like Wath Brow (I use Cumbrian examples as I am in the Lakes quite a bit and go to local matches whenever I can) will thrive while it has volunteers and a place in the community: people drinking in the clubhouse, local businesses putting a bit of money in and advertising in the match programme. It won't become a Superleague club, but that's not the point. Local juniors and adults can aspire to play and give Kells or, even better, some beggars from the wrong side of the Pennines, a good seeing to. Exceptional players may make it and become professionals. Some rich bloke coming along and giving a massive amount of cash, though welcome, may be a poisoned chalice - no such thing as a free lunch, etc. Kick and clap clubs have suffered due to an initial injection of cash in 1995, with players and admin jobs becoming salaried and yet still expecting the cleaners, groundsmen, bar staff and the rest to continue to work for nothing, leaving a bad taste in the mouth and the kit no longer cleaned.
Here's what I was trying to say. A community can keep rugby going without cash, but cash without a community behind it is not sustainable.
Fundamental to rugby's success is always going to be the ingredients as above. And I agree that volunteers are an essential part of all clubs (and we can't do without great people like Shirley Bradshaw keeping us in line). At the same time, there's this idea that all you need is a big wodge of cash and suddenly you've got a Superleague club forever. It's an idea popular with folk with bags of money. Marwan, bless him, thought that he could turn us into a rugby version of FC Barcelona in a couple of years. When I see posts that suggest that the Canadian national side is a consequence of TWP (and not realising that there's been one for decades), it makes me think that the idea is not only held by them what are rolling in it. There'll be little, if any, of the TWP money going towards a national team.
For TWP to be sustainable, there needs to be enough young Canadians to put down their ice hockey sticks and pick up an oval-shaped ball. And parents and friends prepared to do all the stuff to keep amateurs teams going. That's going to be a lot of people (fortunately there are already people doing it over there - there are three leagues at least). It might be that the initial cash injection will lead to an increased interest, and it would be great if it does. I'm not that confident because the model has been tried with Paris St Germain and failed. It worked with Catalans because the scheme was driven by a rugby bloke at the heart of a massively rugby-oriented community. Even that's no guarantee; Cumbria is similar to the Catalans' region, but it is doubtful that two clubs would agree to merge to produce a professional Cumbrian team.
Good luck to TWP, but sustainable? Possibly, but don't hold your breath.
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Post by redunderthebed on Oct 6, 2018 18:55:45 GMT
Vin - great post. I agree entirely. I was going to say something similar about Toronto. I am worried that when the current owner moves on whether that’s in 1, 5 or 50 years that if nothing else has changed its unlikely anyone else would be thinking it’s a good business model. I hope that it starts to give the kids and players over there a route into pro league and it can develop from the amateur scene in place. I follow a lot of North American and other developing countries leagues on Twitter and it’s great to see how much there is
Ironically London seems to producing more and more players since they stopped being in super league. I think that is in real risk of stopping though as they have cut the development officersdien there. I agree entirely that it’s about community and development, not a rich backer
I still really want Toronto to succeed though 😊
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