Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 10:38:43 GMT
Many moons ago Greenwood was an England RU player from Orrell referred to Rugby League as a simple game for simple minds.
I have never forgotten that insult. Last night never has that insult been nearer the truth.
We must not continue with no scrums and six again. As stated elsewhere we were watching glorified sevens with little structure to the game and players and officials running down the shock? Clock to take a breather.
As Sadler from League Express said Faster is not better.
Any views?
|
|
|
|
Post by Carnster on Sept 4, 2020 11:13:31 GMT
Watching two groups of players made up of backs and forwards form a human tent, make no effort once in that position, and watch another bloke roll a ball to the player at the back of the mess as a form of restarting the game seems a bit convoluted to me when the ultimate aim is to get the ball rolling again. As I mentioned elsewhere, the physical time taken to restart the game now in place of a scrum has been extended to the same time it would take to perform the scrum. It's no faster than before as the ref even stops the clock like when a scrum is packed.
What you're actually seeing is just the disconnect of not seeing the scrum mess like before.
The only way scrums could be useful is if they were done correctly like in RU. But watching scrums in RU is boring as hell, not to mention the dangers of collapsing scrums on players necks. Do people forget the contested scrums in RL? They were constantly being re-set and were a general mess. That's why they went to uncontested scrums and ignored the feeding rule.
I'm happy to see them go. I watch RL for the hits and exciting attacking RL. I don't watch it to watch set pieces. If I wanted to be bored to death by those I'd watch RU.
|
|
|
|
Post by bonitared on Sept 4, 2020 11:39:41 GMT
I favour scrums. Not worried if it’s illogical,I just like the structure it gives.
I also like the 6 again rule,when it’s applied properly. I think there’s far less penalties now given in the NRL but British refs haven’t yet realised that it’s better if they’re seen and not heard.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 11:49:07 GMT
Watching two groups of players made up of backs and forwards form a human tent, make no effort once in that position, and watch another bloke roll a ball to the player at the back of the mess as a form of restarting the game seems a bit convoluted to me when the ultimate aim is to get the ball rolling again. As I mentioned elsewhere, the physical time taken to restart the game now in place of a scrum has been extended to the same time it would take to perform the scrum. It's no faster than before as the ref even stops the clock like when a scrum is packed. What you're actually seeing is just the disconnect of not seeing the scrum mess like before. The only way scrums could be useful is if they were done correctly like in RU. But watching scrums in RU is boring as hell, not to mention the dangers of collapsing scrums on players necks. Do people forget the contested scrums in RL? They were constantly being re-set and were a general mess. That's why they went to uncontested scrums and ignored the feeding rule. I'm happy to see them go. I watch RL for the hits and exciting attacking RL. I don't watch it to watch set pieces. If I wanted to be bored to death by those I'd watch RU. As I said Faster is not better. I have no desire to see RU type scrums. What I want to see is a division between forwards and backs and the intricate way each position used to function. What’s better than seeing big robust forwards dominating and pounding away at the line,or half backs jinking around the big lads or skilful centres creating space for flying wingers. Last night was glorified tick rugby with tackling.I do not decry current players,merely ask for a more structured game that we all surely want. |
|
|
|
Post by Suedehead on Sept 4, 2020 12:12:16 GMT
THE FONT makes some excellent points.
With the ‘6 again’ rule and no scrums it just doesn’t seem right. I know we are reluctant to change but everything looks really hectic at the moment. We need to finish this season and reassess but I would be very surprised if scrums are not reintroduced. In my humble opinion high scoring games do not necessarily mean more entertainment.
|
|
|
|
Post by russ on Sept 4, 2020 12:15:57 GMT
I love this as a discussion. I thought the Aussies were right to keep scrums origninally but now feel we're so much better off without them. The tough it out games will still happen. The speed of the game makes it far more attractive to watch, and the increase in time in play is another marketing tool that probably won't be made enough of by RFL/SL sales teams. And anything that makes it less like yoonion is more than a plus, it's a Godsend! Essentially it's just the next step in the sports evolution that will annoy all the angries who are still saying we should never have left the ocean. We mustn't go backwards because of two poor defensive showings and a lack of ability to adapt.
 |
|
|
|
Post by redfan on Sept 4, 2020 12:38:29 GMT
Which ever rules we go forward with for next season need to be agreed asap, the reason I say this the new rules will now dictate the type of player you need to recruit for the following season. Training systems will need to change to adapt to this new type of rugby also new strategies and game plans will need to be brought in. Clubs that have already recruited for next season might be regretting the type of player they have brought in.
As to this present season it looks to me that players were not given enough time to prepare for the start up, due to the type of injuries sustained by all clubs, yes I can understand the need to get the game started up again but surely the sport needs to look after its players better, after all its them that make the sport what it is.
One observation I would like to make and people might agree or disagree is for the referee to be changed at half time, the reason is its not only the game that's faster for players but for the refs as well which could effect the decision making process of these people.
On a personal note the demise of the scrum would be heart breaking for me being an ex prop, but I could see the writing was on the wall when watching an NRL match recently a scrum was formed using the half backs as the props.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnh1 on Sept 4, 2020 12:57:29 GMT
One of the most boring sporting spectacles has to be the Union scrum. I cannot understand why they cannot see that, certainly in the six nations, they usually have three attempts to have the scrum (never 4 you will notice) followed by a random penalty. Usually takes three minutes- yes I have timed it. I think the League scrum is fine. Ball in, ball out and get on with the game with 12 players temporarily tied up. Having seen the no scrum option, I am fine with that as well, but would prefer to keep the League scrum just to break up the game a bit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carnster on Sept 4, 2020 14:10:17 GMT
Watching two groups of players made up of backs and forwards form a human tent, make no effort once in that position, and watch another bloke roll a ball to the player at the back of the mess as a form of restarting the game seems a bit convoluted to me when the ultimate aim is to get the ball rolling again. As I mentioned elsewhere, the physical time taken to restart the game now in place of a scrum has been extended to the same time it would take to perform the scrum. It's no faster than before as the ref even stops the clock like when a scrum is packed. What you're actually seeing is just the disconnect of not seeing the scrum mess like before. The only way scrums could be useful is if they were done correctly like in RU. But watching scrums in RU is boring as hell, not to mention the dangers of collapsing scrums on players necks. Do people forget the contested scrums in RL? They were constantly being re-set and were a general mess. That's why they went to uncontested scrums and ignored the feeding rule. I'm happy to see them go. I watch RL for the hits and exciting attacking RL. I don't watch it to watch set pieces. If I wanted to be bored to death by those I'd watch RU. As I said Faster is not better. I have no desire to see RU type scrums. What I want to see is a division between forwards and backs and the intricate way each position used to function. What’s better than seeing big robust forwards dominating and pounding away at the line,or half backs jinking around the big lads or skilful centres creating space for flying wingers. Last night was glorified tick rugby with tackling.I do not decry current players,merely ask for a more structured game that we all surely want. I take your point. Trouble is, scrums don't currently create a division between backs and forwards as the scrums before covid were peppered with backs, and forwards could be stuck out at first and second receiver. The old 'forwards tied-up in the scrum so the backs are free to play' doesn't exist anymore. If SL enforced forwards in the scrum then maybe your point has more merit, but I can't see that happening. Last night was glorified tick RL because neither team could defend. It had little to do with the rule changes but I'll concede that the no-scrums certainly added to the feeling of a RL tennis match. All the other games so far on Sky have not given this feeling and they ran under the same rules. I just think we saw two poor teams that have suffered from the disjointed nature of this restart. |
|
|
|
Post by russ on Sept 4, 2020 14:58:19 GMT
You have to think about two things: What makes any sport more available to a wider public (especially one with falsely determined geographical amd market) and what is more easily sold to a wider public? And if your answer to both these is scrums as a highlight of how the game works then you continue with them.
There is one body that will be noting the difference six again and no scrums have made to our sport and will react to it in their rule changes just as they always have done.
|
|
|
|
Post by chief on Sept 4, 2020 22:31:17 GMT
It’s rugby league Jim, but not as we know it....
|
|
|
|
Post by russ on Sept 5, 2020 8:07:42 GMT
It’s rugby league Jim, but not as we know it.... Everytime there's a change we have to cope with wailing, gnashing of teeth and renting of garments.
In this they are no different from the Twickers reactionaries over control of the game, what type of competitions and will the "right sort" be on top?
Every single change from the PTB to limited tackles has edged towards RL as we should always have known it.
And Dickie (DH) Greenwood was just expressing the snobbery that is the last line of defense of the bereft of any real argument.
|
|
|
|
Post by JJR on Sept 5, 2020 8:36:28 GMT
Just because it's change doesn't mean it's right. In my view we change too much and if this sticks we now have a different game to Oz, but that's another problem
The issue to me is that scrums, mostly as they were added another dimension, added interest and needed different types of player
So now we have no scrum halves, hookers or props but we have two fast men three smaller tricky men and eventually eight biggish centres. And, ok we have lots of big scores, but it's becoming uninteresting. Gave up watching last nights games; cricket was good though.
in fact, and I hate to say it, it's making Union look interesting because of the variety of play. If this carries on, no season ticket for me. Throughout the year we should run 7s/9s competitions to attract other types of spectator. But not a 13 a side , 7s type game for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by russ on Sept 5, 2020 8:46:36 GMT
Just because it's change doesn't mean it's right. In my view we change too much and if this sticks we now have a different game to Oz, but that's another problem The issue to me is that scrums, mostly as they were added another dimension, added interest and needed different types of player So now we have no scrum halves, hookers or props but we have two fast men three smaller tricky men and eventually eight biggish centres. And, ok we have lots of big scores, but it's becoming uninteresting. Gave up watching last nights games; cricket was good though. Well if you like the the terminally slow game of cricket fast would never appeal, would it?
Scrums are interesting to the officianados, the already converted RL has to sell itself in an overloaded and biased market place. This means while we look like another form of kick & clap we're on a hiding to nothing.
As I said when this was first mooted I wanted scrums. The changes changed my mind. More playing time, more adventure and less predictability which has been the modern game's downfall.
The fact that they kept scrums in Oz has made the comparison even easier.
|
|
|
|
Post by JJR on Sept 5, 2020 8:59:59 GMT
Yes you're right Russ the comparison is easier; Oz game far better spectacle.
And if you look at the NZ RU game North v South it's even better
|
|
