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Post by bonitared on Aug 28, 2020 8:00:54 GMT
So it's ok for Widnes Leigh Bradford etc fans who've been supporting their clubs for decades to suffer, in order to allow Toronto to remain. Good people runnng the Club, one of which was Kouchash's right hand man that he fired. Seems a balanced view. Koukash may have not done things the way others have but he invested via his companies millions, which is actually a lot more than our current owners have. He did stop the Club failing, which I assume you would have preferred so perhaps Toulouse could have taken our place. Firstly,on our current owners,if that’s the correct term. My understanding,which may be wrong,is that we’re a community club that can only spend what we earn. Our overdraft is secured against Directors houses etc,so how you can compare Koukash to our current situation surprises me. Toronto club exists but it’s owner has pulled out,leaving debts,which is what happened when Koukash took over but then he wrote off the debt to him. Apart from the publicity in which its played out there’s probably not that much difference between their situation and the one we had. As long as promotion is retained when things are back to normal then Fev,Leigh etc will have their chance again so we can visit there again.
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Post by redunderthebed on Aug 28, 2020 8:59:26 GMT
JJR - Widnes, Bradford, etc were relegated. They finished bottom and they went down. Should the rules not apply to them because they are homeland clubs? Their fans are only suffering because they got relegated and haven’t yet been promoted. What’s that got to do with anything?
Toronto were promoted. They won the right to be in super league. Should the rules have been changed to keep them out because they’re not from the north of England?
The rules seem to be different for different clubs. It’s ok for Koukash to not pay players because he saved our club. It’s ok because he put money in to the sport as did Hudgel. But somehow the owners of Toronto putting even more money is a bad thing? Or it doesn’t count? How long would Hudgel etc have stayed around if he had to promise not to take a share of the TV money to be allowed to play? Would any of the current SL owners agree to pay for all travel and accommodation for other teams? But somehow none of that counts compared to the money that northern Englishmen put in?
Toronto created thousands of fans in a city where RL has never been played and we’re happy for them to have to suck it up because the club owners business plans weren’t robust enough to cope with a world wide shut down? Because they had no TV money, no furlough scheme the RFL refused them a £200k loan?
Widnes, Bradford, featherstone, halifax, etc have had 125 years to get it right, get lots of fans, sponsors, tv deals and yet they still go bust or get relegated or both. But that proves we need to invest more in the heartlands and give them even more time to get it right. An expansion club goes bust and that proves that expansion doesn’t work?
Why do we apply completely different sets of judgements to the different clubs. Rugby league is failing because it is run by short sighted club owners who’s only interest is their own club and they’re short term income. It will never change without new blood. The fact that Vickers got one job in RL is bad enough. That he then got the chance to help ruin other clubs shows what a small pond RL fishes in.
For all Koukash’s faults he shook things up a bit and got some rule changes that were needed. He did that because he came in as an outsider and saw things that were bonkers and make no sense. If he had better people around him and wasn’t such a whinging, spotlight grabbing, big mouth he could have been a great owner. We need more outside people coming in, more outside cash coming in and a decision making body not run by club owners Not more of the same
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Post by bonitared on Aug 28, 2020 9:20:13 GMT
This ☝️☝️
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Post by russ on Aug 28, 2020 9:45:19 GMT
So it's ok for Widnes Leigh Bradford etc fans who've been supporting their clubs for decades to suffer, in order to allow Toronto to remain. Good people runnng the Club, one of which was Kouchash's right hand man that he fired. Seems a balanced view. The galvanising of Black and white views and interpretations is one of the main problems JJR.
Leigh and Bradford fans are not suffering as you put it because of TWP.
If they're suffering at all it's because one of them has been a stereotypical yoyo club, and the other because they spent more money than they had to guarantee success until it stopped working.
There's a lot of misunderstood stuff around because things are put together that don't have anything to do with each other.
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Post by russ on Aug 28, 2020 9:49:28 GMT
TWP & NY & OA will gain us more media coverage and traction than we'll get without them and to argue this is not the case is silly.
Does the sport need this? Yes, desperately!
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Post by kreuzbergred on Aug 28, 2020 12:36:55 GMT
So it's ok for Widnes Leigh Bradford etc fans who've been supporting their clubs for decades to suffer, in order to allow Toronto to remain. Good people runnng the Club, one of which was Kouchash's right hand man that he fired. Seems a balanced view. Koukash may have not done things the way others have but he invested via his companies millions, which is actually a lot more than our current owners have. He did stop the Club failing, which I assume you would have preferred so perhaps Toulouse could have taken our place. I just spent a good while trying to work out How Bradford Leigh & Widnes Supporters have Suffered since Toronto were admitted to RL ,They started in Championship 1 then The Championship Earned the right to play in the Superleague. And no one on the planet a year ago could even imagine that we've had a world wide killer virus. I believe Wolfpack made the right choice by withdrawing from the 2020 season, No club deserves to be in the Supeleague based on what happened 30-40 Years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2020 13:03:15 GMT
Belive Toronto should be in SL as they have earned that right through promotion.
But I also think they should be held to the same laws and rules as others.
Teams have had numerous points deducted for much lesser infractions.
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Post by prestwichred on Aug 28, 2020 14:29:23 GMT
I won’t even get into the Koukash era, lesser said about that the better. Toronto were a disaster waiting to happen even before the virus, buying SBW on a ludicrous deal and then not strengthening in obvious areas meant they were always going to struggle. The costs to run the club and the fact they lost their TV deal and have no funding from Sky or the RFL meant they would at one stage go bump. If they are let back in then the same thing will happen in one or two years or even less.
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Post by bonitared on Aug 28, 2020 14:41:56 GMT
I won’t even get into the Koukash era, lesser said about that the better. Toronto were a disaster waiting to happen even before the virus, buying SBW on a ludicrous deal and then not strengthening in obvious areas meant they were always going to struggle. The costs to run the club and the fact they lost their TV deal and have no funding from Sky or the RFL meant they would at one stage go bump. If they are let back in then the same thing will happen in one or two years or even less. Thought that mentioning MK would grab your interest 😉 Totally agree that it’s difficult to have sympathy for Toronto after their signing of Sonny Bill. I said from the start that it would ultimately fail. However,their situation is not too far removed from the end of the Wilkinson era and,if that’s accepted,why wouldn’t they be allowed to continue ?
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Post by russ on Aug 28, 2020 17:25:18 GMT
I won’t even get into the Koukash era, lesser said about that the better. Toronto were a disaster waiting to happen even before the virus, buying SBW on a ludicrous deal and then not strengthening in obvious areas meant they were always going to struggle. The costs to run the club and the fact they lost their TV deal and have no funding from Sky or the RFL meant they would at one stage go bump. If they are let back in then the same thing will happen in one or two years or even less. Thought that mentioning MK would grab your interest 😉 Totally agree that it’s difficult to have sympathy for Toronto after their signing of Sonny Bill. I said from the start that it would ultimately fail. However,their situation is not too far removed from the end of the Wilkinson era and,if that’s accepted,why wouldn’t they be allowed to continue ? They shouldn't be allowed to continue because T'interweb has turned everyone into one of those women who knitted while they watched the guillotine fall.
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Post by JJR on Aug 28, 2020 18:31:16 GMT
For me they can go in the Championship or League 2. But if nobody noticed, they didn't fulfill their fixtures, which I don't think we ever did.
As identified earlier their business plan was not credible, the players haven't been paid, a total shambles. But of course it's a big City where nobody's played before so we must have it at any cost. That's the problem with RL, no credibility, and eemingly lack of values
As for Koukash, he saved the Club (twice in my view when the community club couldnt afford a scrum half) invested lots of money, too disorganised probably, but without him the Club wouldn't be here. He then gave the Club to the community, effectively Rosler and pals, who are not investors. As to what a Community Club is, I have no idea as many other clubs do much more in the community than ours and their fans in the community have much more interaction with the Club. In fact in MKs day there was more interaction with fans.
But we are where we are. It's RL, no apparent plan, chase the money wherever it is, no matter what the consequences, and survive in some form or other for another day. At times I wonder why we even bother discussing it because it's the same old issues all the time. Pity nobody can take a grip, get a credible plan and work along the path for ten years. But they probably don't know what a plan is.
Oh we've lost another wicket in the T20 and Ebony drones on. A competitor for Mcdermotts crown. Still it's a Bank Holiday and there's a match tomorrow 😉
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Post by JJR on Aug 31, 2020 7:01:59 GMT
According to the press Toronto players can speak to other teams. So RFL has its way, Toronto in SL, no players maybe. Curiouser and curiouser
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Post by russ on Aug 31, 2020 11:34:35 GMT
O'Brien is only loaned to Cas apparently.
I did wonder about the lack of players but then again when the CEO of the RFL says stuff about clubs going under and they can't guarantee their survival, it does make you wonder what the purpose of the organisation actually is?
If they're a body that can't help, can't market and can't negotiate .....
They've done a very reasonable job with Covid and games though.
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Post by bonitared on Aug 31, 2020 14:01:00 GMT
They've done a very reasonable job with Covid and games though. I may have mentioned this before,but the leadership at the RFL is second rate,maybe that’s all we can afford or attract. They've done ok with COVID ,perhaps, but why oh why does he say that he can’t guarantee survival. It makes you wonder what’s happening to the £16 million fund. As a leader he needs to motivate others and he didn’t need to say that.
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Post by kreuzbergred on Aug 31, 2020 15:33:22 GMT
The £16 Million is Only Now in the Process of being Distributed!! Come on Folks How much interest have the Bestiality Loving Heirachy in Leeds earnt from it so Far
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