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Post by dixon13 on Oct 14, 2019 18:17:50 GMT
I Know we have talked about this on another thread. So please excuse me for starting another one. Reading the letters in today's league express from supporters from other clubs. At least five are about the performance of the so called referee. For those who did not get a copy,at least to go as far to sujest that we were never in with a chance from the start.That through his bias Mr Kendal saw to it we did not have a chance. The feeling of those who commented,was that every 50 / 50 decision went saints way. One even went as far as to sujest Saints first try should have been ruled out because under the present law Farge was offside,and that Lolohea's try should have stood. Also the head but on the Salford player should have been punished. I know some on the forum probably think, some go on to much about reffees so I will refer to Josh Jones. When asked about Chris Kendal. I don't want to comment on what I think about the feferee I will get into trouble. Even the players thought what some of us thought.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 18:36:25 GMT
I’ve tried my best not to talk about the ref as I’m really not into ref bashing but I was sat at work today and realised that by not talking about him it was stopping me talking about the actual game. That he’s so entwined with the outcome is not a good sign. I’ve also purposefully not rewatched any of the game for fear that it will somehow tarnish the memory- this isn’t right at all and it shouldn’t be like this.
I saw a clip of the Tui no try by accident before and it made me realise I made the right decision not to rewatch the game. I’m not going into in-depth analysis but - It’s close but not a try but we should have had a penalty regardless. None of the decisions were blatantly incorrect despite some of the claims doing the rounds as far as I can remember but of 7 or 8 50/50s (I’m being diplomatic calling some of them 50/50) we didn’t get one going our way. It was like Chinese water torture. The two strip/knock-on calls that both went Saints way and ultimately led to the winning try summed it up. Maybe the occasion got to him but there are two better referees who should have been considered first in my opinion.
Right I’ve got that off my chest and will say no more about it. Feel slightly better. Maybe one day soon I’ll be able to rewatch the game.
Apologies to anyone who doesn’t want to hear about referees but I’m back down south with nobody to rant to so had to let it out somewhere! Seeing that clip has set me off!
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Post by JJR on Oct 14, 2019 19:57:20 GMT
Sadly Chris Kendal is a young up and coming referee of good promise who was thrust into something beyond his ability. The League is not blessed with good refs and Hick probably couldn't be in charge of another major game involving the Saints after his potential mistake and the over the top attitude of the Saints chairman, who with a couple of others seems to steer the RL.
The Saints players are mainly very experienced and mature players, who like any other player will take it to the limit. Thaler reffing the Salford v Wigan match killed the tricks early, set his limits wouldn't listen to the continual moans of O'loughlin and others and ran the match. But he's experienced toughened and can and has taken criticism.
So they put Kendal in who couldn't cope and probably fearing the wrath of the Saints Chairman. The alternative was Thaler, why not, or possibly an Australian ref.
On the side of the RL they have few refs, little money for more and the result is the debacle on Sat. Poor Kendal seemed out of his depth, couldn't make the big decisions and resulted in doing what Childs does, spotting and giving niggling penalties at the ptb. I really felt for him because he lost it.
I feel aggrieved because it was spoiled the match for me. Saints we're the better team but we didn't stand a chance with them and the ref against us. And we had far too many poor decisions. SO the big day was a let down.
So RL stop spending so much money on fireworks, glitz, glamour, freebies, prawn sandwiches and whatever and spend it on the one thing that really matters. A good experienced ref and two linesmen or a training course for more as the RU do.
I won't go on about the Video Ref but just have a look how the RU do it. They make us look like amateurs, which we are.
So don't have a go at Kendal, he was thrust in, couldn't do it, because it's a massive ask and point your anger at the RL. Hopefully Chris Kendal will stay around, learn from the experience and become a top grade match official. Because we need him.
RFL hang your heads in shame.
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Post by mauricethered on Oct 14, 2019 20:07:26 GMT
Kendall was a disgrace end of. He didn't send the Tui try to the Video Ref, Missed Saints 2nd try being offside, didn't penalise Ashworth and Naiqama for foul play and paid little attention to Saints being onside on lying on. The worst one for me was giving a knock on against Dudson after Lussicks excellent kick, Gill blatantly had the ball stripped, that was our last chance to build pressure and it went. I don't believe that these decisions alone lost Salford the game but equally it killed our momentum at key moments. It says everything when my dad (A Wigan fan) is texting me in disbelief at what he is watching. I feel Salford and our fans have been really measured in defeat, Eamonn McMannus was crying to anyone who would listen after the CC Final and went on a public rant. I don't think any Salford fan should apologise for the limited capability of Chris Kendall to show balance during a RL Grand Final. Anyhow I am sure the team will build on this and be back stronger in 2020.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 21:16:19 GMT
The most disappointing thing was that he seemed to ref it as a champs vs underdogs game rather than a grand final. Saints were on fire though for most of the game. For us to concede only 3 tries was unreal really. The little things just didn't go our way throughout the game.
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Post by bonitared on Oct 14, 2019 22:25:50 GMT
It wasn’t a surprise. The test is how you feel when the ref is announced earlier in the week. Prior to the Wigan game,it was Thaler. I was pleased. Prior to the GF they announced Kendall and my heart sank. So,it’s not with the benefit of hindsight. My real worry is that,other than Thaler,who would I have been happy about ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 22:39:41 GMT
It wasn’t a surprise. The test is how you feel when the ref is announced earlier in the week. Prior to the Wigan game,it was Thaler. I was pleased. Prior to the GF they announced Kendall and my heart sank. So,it’s not with the benefit of hindsight. My real worry is that,other than Thaler,who would I have been happy about ? Said it the other week, bring back Terry Albert
To be serious in the main our officials are just not fit for the job they are charged with, I think someone hit on the idea earlier but I'd love to see an NRL ref take charge of a few games in Super League and see what the difference is.
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Post by JJR on Oct 15, 2019 6:25:20 GMT
Remember the furore created by the Saints chairman when there was potentially a try not given in the Cup Final ( from one camera angle only and never proven). One possible mistake and Hick was taken to the cleaners. The same Chairman has not said a word about the referee in the Premiership Final.
So is the Saints chairman looking for an even playing field? Absolutely not. But how instrumental was he in choosing the referee? Probably.
So why is our Club not doing the same as the Saints chairman for the very poor refereeing of the Final. Because they accept the result and have probably enquired in a sportsmanlike way to the Head of Refereeing, Ganson??
We all accept that the refereeing was poor, probably inept but if we keep putting pressure on them we'll have none. Look at the number who've left in the past few years. For me it totally spoilt the contest and the day, but the pressure should go on the RL not the individuals who go out, do their best, and do what for me is an impossible job as they have found out in Australia, where it's a two man job. And why don't we have two refs per match, because there are very few and if we keep playing them down there will be even less.
So have a go at the powers that be in the RFL not the individuals and the standard might improve.
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Post by hillbillyred on Oct 15, 2019 7:27:28 GMT
"So is the Saints chairman looking for an even playing field? Absolutely not. But how instrumental was he in choosing the referee? Probably." But imagine the mind-set of any ref after the very public humiliating of Hick. As expected all 50/50s went the way of Saints. RL is frightened of the owners of SL teams: one walks away and that club could collapse. We do not attract the number of businessmen that other sports do. SL seems to threaten a break-away when the owners are thwarted.
SL is owned by 4/5 business people who will not give up power. We just gate-crashed their party.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 9:52:12 GMT
The main reason I was surprised Kendall got the game was because he reffed in Toronto the previous weekend. With all the logistics etc involved it seemed strange to give him the biggest game of the season less than a week later.
Thaler was presumably ruled out because he reffed our last two play off games, and Hicks because the Saints chairman doesn't like him.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 9:59:01 GMT
The most disappointing thing was that he seemed to ref it as a champs vs underdogs game rather than a grand final. Saints were on fire though for most of the game. For us to concede only 3 tries was unreal really. The little things just didn't go our way throughout the game. I think that’s the best analysis I’ve seen so far - he refereed it like it was underdogs v champs. He did exactly the same the week before in Toronto. Maybe we were a bit naive and let Saints take advantage too much but you’d have thought that wouldn’t have happened with the other two refs we’ve mentioned.
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Post by rickthered on Oct 15, 2019 17:53:46 GMT
As the dust settles on the Grand Final now my lasting memory of the match will always be that Salford were strangled out of the game by the match official, his decision making and his largely inaccurate interpretations of the laws in key moments of the game
Look back at the match and you’ll see Salford entered St Helen’s 20 metre area just 3 times with ball in hand. The first time they were pulled back for an obstruction (an incorrect decision in my opinion), the second time they scored a try, the third time they were punished for a knock-on from an incorrect play the ball when an opposition player interfered and should have been penalised
There were other incidents too, tackles in the air, a head butt, a shoulder charge and multiple 50/50 decisions every one of which were adjudicated in favour of St Helens, on 2 of those occasions they led directly to Saints tries. On top of that Fages was offside for the first try of the match which for the previous 30+ weeks of the season had led to no try and a penalty to the defending side, last Saturday however the rules had changed and it was a try
It was not a pretty sight and it ruined what should have been one of the great Grand Finals. As it was, we ended up with a no contest event and even now I am still amazed at Salford’s resilience and how they stood up to repeated sets close to their own line on all but 3 occasions. Even if they weren’t allowed to attack, they were at least able to show just how far their defence has come in the past few months. Virtually any other team would have shipped 50+ points on Saturday based on the amount of possession the opposition had on the Salford line
Someone pointed out to me last night that I must be wrong in my interpretation of the head butt and shoulder charge as the RFL announced on Monday there were no disciplinary cases from the Grand Final. My view wasn’t wrong – if the RFL had decided on foul play and meted out suspensions for either or both incidents it would have by association admitted the referee had had a poor game and they were never going to do that
This season has seen another catalogue of errors on the field in crucial matches and as such therefore the RFL refereeing department needs to urgently review their approach to match officials yet again. Childs has made so many key errors he’s unlikely to officiate in a top match again, Hicks after his mistake at the Challenge Cup Final has ended up with a tarnished reputation due to the (so far unpunished) vitriol leveled at him by Eamon McManus and Thaler was ignored more than likely as he was perceived to have been too harsh on Wigan the week before. That left Mr. Kendal as the only option – a sorry state of affairs that sums up the issues the RFL now has to address
The one thing everyone wants from officials in any sport is consistency. Put simply that if an incident is a penalty for interference one week, it’s still a penalty for interference the following week. Unfortunately, the current Super League officials can’t achieve that. Take the two fixtures in the play-offs against Wigan. In the first Mr. Hicks allowed Wigan to slow the play the ball down and get away with it. Two weeks later Mr. Thaler didn’t allow them to do so and Wigan had no “plan b” other than to argue with the official. I’m not saying one or other was right or wrong, just simply highlighting the completely different approach and interpretation of the laws of the game by two of the “leading” RFL referees. That’s not good enough
Remember these are full time officials who referee one 80 minute match each week and sometimes run the line at another game. They need to be getting the crucial decisions right, they need to be consistent and they need to be up to the task. That wasn’t the case on Saturday when a new rule book appeared to have been published midweek judging by the number of poor and inept decisions made during the game
Mr. Kendal should not have been officiating a match of that magnitude as he is not nearly good enough. If he was the only option they had then the RFL should be looking at the positions of Mr. Ganson and his team which after Saturday night is now in my view untenable
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Post by salford1961 on Oct 15, 2019 18:27:49 GMT
After the Wigan game the Friday before I was so looking forward to the final and thought we had a fighters chance. The way we defended against Wigan and the fact that we should have beaten Saints at their place (Apart from a dodgy refereeing decision) I really thought we could possibly do it.
I really enjoyed seeing our boys come out to contest a Grand Final at Old Trafford, the pinnacle of British Rugby League. Within about 10 minutes of the start I knew we didn't have a hope in hell due to the officiating. It left me with a very hollow feeling inside that we weren't even given a chance by Chris Kendall. It wasn't because the Salford players didn't give everything as they were fantastic.
Imagine if Salford had been given the decisions Saints were given. In the period before half time we scored two tries one of which was ruled out without going to the video ref. Why,when it's such an important game and the Wembley no try debacle? Saints were offside at nearly every play the ball, third man in putting hands on top of tackled players to slow the game down, a head shot on Evalds and a headbutt to a player on the ground.Nothing punished.
This isn't an attack on Saints who have been magnificent all season but an attack on the Rugby League and the officiating of our show piece event.
Very proud of being a Salford fan this year and thank you to all the Players, Coaches and Staff for a wonderful year
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Post by JJR on Oct 15, 2019 19:12:58 GMT
Agree 1961 but Kendal didn't stand a chance because McManus tore into Hick so much after the Wembley Final that Kendal was probably frightened to death of getting Saints decisions wrong. Not heard any complaints from McManus about the Grand Final refereeing and it was many times worse than Wembley. And yes it totally spoiled it for me, an unfair contest. Not sure we'd have won but a fairer match was all I wanted.
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Post by dixon13 on Oct 15, 2019 19:13:59 GMT
After the Wigan game the Friday before I was so looking forward to the final and thought we had a fighters chance. The way we defended against Wigan and the fact that we should have beaten Saints at their place (Apart from a dodgy refereeing decision) I really thought we could possibly do it. I really enjoyed seeing our boys come out to contest a Grand Final at Old York Trafford, the pinnacle of British Rugby League. Within about 10 minutes of the start I knew we didn't have a hope in hell due to the officiating. It left me with a very hollow feeling inside that we weren't even given a chance by Chris Kendall. It wasn't because the Salford players didn't give everything as they were fantastic. Imagine if Salford had been given the decisions Saints were given. In the period before half time we scored two tries one of which was ruled out without going to the video ref. Why,when it's such an important game and the Wembley no try debacle? Saints were offside at nearly every play the ball, third man in putting hands on top of tackled players to slow the game down, a head shot on Evalds and a headbutt to a player on the ground.Nothing punished. This isn't an attack on Saints who have been magnificent all season but an attack on the Rugby League and the officiating of our show piece event. Very proud of being a Salford fan this year and thank you to all the Players, Coaches and Staff for a wonderful year What I don't get is. It's the League,s fault.Yes it's their fault they have only got a few referee,s.But it was Kendals fault when they crossed the whitewash.I would go as far as to say, that if we were lucky enough to go back next season the same thing will happen again.what we got on Saturday I expect just not so blatant. You have to feel sorry for the players, if we feel bad how do they feel.
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