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Post by redunderthebed on Oct 15, 2019 21:14:02 GMT
I think this is the worst thread I’ve ever read on here. So much nonsense.
There were 2 or 3 wrong decisions against Salford. It wasn’t a head but. It was clear cut obstruction. Find me more than 2 examples of a team being penalised for the scrum half not retreating behind the scrum in the last 20 years. Lolohea did it at least once In that game. Should have been a pen for saints 20m out. Easy 2 points but Kendal didn’t give it. How come if he wanted saints to win? He missed a knock on by Sio. Gave us a 7 tackle set for a saints knock on when it looks to me like it comes off Inu (that set ends with Tui’s no try). One or two others that went our way.
The strip on mossop in the wigan game for our opening penalty I’ve watched lots of times and can’t see an obvious Wigan hand in there. The Bibby try against Cas. I don’t remember one of our fans saying the ref must have wanted us to win. How come?
Not saying Kendall got nothing wrong. He did. All refs will make mistakes in every game. Just like players do. For some reason it’s unforgivable and a conspiracy when the referee misses something. The penalty count was something like 7-5 to saints so not a massive difference
It’s funny how the game we won was the one where the ref had the best game. Maybe we won that game because we played brilliantly rather than it being the ref? Maybe we lost the other two because Saints were just too good and we made too many mistakes against both them and Wigan first time. Do you not get how biased we are as fans and how much that influences what we see?
Has anybody in this tread ever tried reffing? If not give it a go and see how you get on.
I had promised myself I wouldn’t get into the ref debate but I’ve read so much nonsense on social media and here that I can’t help it. I know this won’t be a popular view but hey ho. My number one hate in RL is the ref bashing conspiracy theorists. That’s what nearly puts me off rugby league.
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Post by bonitared on Oct 15, 2019 21:33:25 GMT
You make many good points.
The bit that I would advise caution is the penalty count.
At the time,during the game,so not with the benefit of hindsight,I said that he was adept at levelling up the penalty count. They are clever at that.
It’s a given that he isn’t bent,of course he’s not. He didn’t cost us the match,nobody is suggesting that .Saints deserved it.
The bottom line is that he’s a poor ref,in my opinion. He may improve as Hick has to some extent.
I very much hope so.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 21:43:22 GMT
I believe Salford got 4 penalties during the game. One for a player tackled in the air, one for a saints player being offside chasing a kick, one just before the Dudson phantom knock on, and one as the hooter sounded. No offsides or interference by saints for 80 minutes so fair play to them.
We were penalised for a flop and offside in the first 10 mins which set the tone for the game.
I just think the ref treated us as underdogs rather than treating us on an equal footing.
Saints were the better team and clearly deserved to win but there were a few frustrating incidents from our point of view, which many neutrals have also commented on.
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Post by dixon13 on Oct 15, 2019 23:21:57 GMT
I think this is the worst thread I’ve ever read on here. So much nonsense. There were 2 or 3 wrong decisions against Salford. It wasn’t a head but. It was clear cut obstruction. Find me more than 2 examples of a team being penalised for the scrum half not retreating behind the scrum in the last 20 years. Lolohea did it at least once In that game. Should have been a pen for saints 20m out. Easy 2 points but Kendal didn’t give it. How come if he wanted saints to win? He missed a knock on by Sio. Gave us a 7 tackle set for a saints knock on when it looks to me like it comes off Inu (that set ends with Tui’s no try). One or two others that went our way. The strip on mossop in the wigan game for our opening penalty I’ve watched lots of times and can’t see an obvious Wigan hand in there. The Bibby try against Cas. I don’t remember one of our fans saying the ref must have wanted us to win. How come? Not saying Kendall got nothing wrong. He did. All refs will make mistakes in every game. Just like players do. For some reason it’s unforgivable and a conspiracy when the referee misses something. The penalty count was something like 7-5 to saints so not a massive difference It’s funny how the game we won was the one where the ref had the best game. Maybe we won that game because we played brilliantly rather than it being the ref? Maybe we lost the other two because Saints were just too good and we made too many mistakes against both them and Wigan first time. Do you not get how biased we are as fans and how much that influences what we see? Has anybody in this tread ever tried reffing? If not give it a go and see how you get on. I had promised myself I wouldn’t get into the ref debate but I’ve read so much nonsense on social media and here that I can’t help it. I know this won’t be a popular view but hey ho. My number one hate in RL is the ref bashing conspiracy theorists. That’s what nearly puts me off rugby league. With referees like Mr kendal Underdogs will always be underdogs,and that's what keeps people away. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 7:37:00 GMT
Redunderthebed, couple of points even though I said I’d say no more. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories or that referees are intentionally biased. I’m also not in agreement that some of the decisions on Saturday were in isolation an ‘outrage’. I’ve defended referees previously (Saints away game for example) and think they have a really hard job but don’t think that this should stop me expressing my opinion when I believe they’ve not performed as they should. I’ve largely kept ref comments to this semi-public forum on a thread clearly named after the ref so it’s easy to avoid if people don’t want to discuss it.
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Post by JJR on Oct 16, 2019 7:48:31 GMT
Refereeing is a tremendously hard job and Chris Kendall did have a poor game. I still think the main issues were the undue pressure put on him by both the RL, in choosing him for such a major game, but who do they have, and McManus the Saints chairman who berated Hicks at the Challenge Cup Final and made any inexperienced ref very wary at this level. Of course Hicks couldnt be chosen for this match.
Sadly he just didn't have the experience to handle the pressure.
And McManus, as usual, achieved his goal. I note the reffing in the Grand Final was a level below that of the Challenge Cup Final but McManus seems to have been very quiet since. I do applaud Blease though for keeping his feelings out of the public domain. The Club can hold its head up high in that respect.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 8:53:46 GMT
Surely every referee who takes a game on a Sunday afternoon SL game should be competent enough to take charge of the Grand Final?
No sorry the level of officiating on Saturday was unacceptable, there should not be a chosen few each and every one of them should be capable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 9:38:25 GMT
I think this is the worst thread I’ve ever read on here. So much nonsense. There were 2 or 3 wrong decisions against Salford. It wasn’t a head but. It was clear cut obstruction. Find me more than 2 examples of a team being penalised for the scrum half not retreating behind the scrum in the last 20 years. Lolohea did it at least once In that game. Should have been a pen for saints 20m out. Easy 2 points but Kendal didn’t give it. How come if he wanted saints to win? He missed a knock on by Sio. Gave us a 7 tackle set for a saints knock on when it looks to me like it comes off Inu (that set ends with Tui’s no try). One or two others that went our way. The strip on mossop in the wigan game for our opening penalty I’ve watched lots of times and can’t see an obvious Wigan hand in there. The Bibby try against Cas. I don’t remember one of our fans saying the ref must have wanted us to win. How come? Not saying Kendall got nothing wrong. He did. All refs will make mistakes in every game. Just like players do. For some reason it’s unforgivable and a conspiracy when the referee misses something. The penalty count was something like 7-5 to saints so not a massive difference It’s funny how the game we won was the one where the ref had the best game. Maybe we won that game because we played brilliantly rather than it being the ref? Maybe we lost the other two because Saints were just too good and we made too many mistakes against both them and Wigan first time. Do you not get how biased we are as fans and how much that influences what we see? Has anybody in this tread ever tried reffing? If not give it a go and see how you get on. I had promised myself I wouldn’t get into the ref debate but I’ve read so much nonsense on social media and here that I can’t help it. I know this won’t be a popular view but hey ho. My number one hate in RL is the ref bashing conspiracy theorists. That’s what nearly puts me off rugby league. Yes I have, 25 years in the amateur game from Student Rugby League internationals to Little Hulton U12s, It doesn’t make my opinion any more valid than any of the other fans on here. For what it’s worth I think Kendal is lacking in experience and is generally at the moment not up to the standards required. As we all know penalty counts are nonsense,most referees are adept at giving soft penalties to even up the count to impress their bosses. It’s the penalties that hurt that are important, In my opinion Kendall did not give Salford a fair crack of the whip, not because he had it in for Salford but because he took the easy option or he is just a bad referee. Nobody on this forum has suggested Salford lost because of him I believe they are fed up because he didn’t give Salford a fair crack. Just my opinion. |
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Post by Carnster on Oct 16, 2019 10:12:00 GMT
I think this is the worst thread I’ve ever read on here. So much nonsense. There were 2 or 3 wrong decisions against Salford. It wasn’t a head but. It was clear cut obstruction. Find me more than 2 examples of a team being penalised for the scrum half not retreating behind the scrum in the last 20 years. Lolohea did it at least once In that game. Should have been a pen for saints 20m out. Easy 2 points but Kendal didn’t give it. How come if he wanted saints to win? He missed a knock on by Sio. Gave us a 7 tackle set for a saints knock on when it looks to me like it comes off Inu (that set ends with Tui’s no try). One or two others that went our way. The strip on mossop in the wigan game for our opening penalty I’ve watched lots of times and can’t see an obvious Wigan hand in there. The Bibby try against Cas. I don’t remember one of our fans saying the ref must have wanted us to win. How come? Not saying Kendall got nothing wrong. He did. All refs will make mistakes in every game. Just like players do. For some reason it’s unforgivable and a conspiracy when the referee misses something. The penalty count was something like 7-5 to saints so not a massive difference It’s funny how the game we won was the one where the ref had the best game. Maybe we won that game because we played brilliantly rather than it being the ref? Maybe we lost the other two because Saints were just too good and we made too many mistakes against both them and Wigan first time. Do you not get how biased we are as fans and how much that influences what we see? Has anybody in this tread ever tried reffing? If not give it a go and see how you get on. I had promised myself I wouldn’t get into the ref debate but I’ve read so much nonsense on social media and here that I can’t help it. I know this won’t be a popular view but hey ho. My number one hate in RL is the ref bashing conspiracy theorists. That’s what nearly puts me off rugby league. Yes I have, 25 years in the amateur game from Student Rugby League internationals to Little Hulton U12s, It doesn’t make my opinion any more valid than any of the other fans on here. For what it’s worth I think Kendal is lacking in experience and is generally at the moment not up to the standards required. As we all know penalty counts are nonsense,most referees are adept at giving soft penalties to even up the count to impress their bosses. It’s the penalties that hurt that are important, In my opinion Kendall did not give Salford a fair crack of the whip, not because he had it in for Salford but because he took the easy option or he is just a bad referee. Nobody on this forum has suggested Salford lost because of him I believe they are fed up because he didn’t give Salford a fair crack. Just my opinion. I think this is pretty fair. Kendal tries his best and that's fair enough, everyone is human and makes mistakes. I also feel that it was a little early for Kendal to be getting a final as he has not yet matured into a ref that can handle bigger occasions. The key points to his performance in the GF was that crucial decisions at key points were wrong or missed. This isn't rose-tinted glasses or bias. They are there for everyone to see. I suppose sometimes it goes in your favour and we don't dwell on them when they go for us. Human nature. In fairness to Kendal, a lot of what he missed or got wrong where very difficult to see without the hindsight of slow motion or different camera angles like we have. Or indeed, the video ref has. In RU and the NRL video refs will correct on-field decisions if they were called wrong without disrupting the game. Why we don't do this I'll never know, although we should have video refs at every game which is another topic entirely. |
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Post by JJR on Oct 16, 2019 12:17:03 GMT
As I keep saying don't underestimate also the pressure put on by McManus after his rant after the Challenge Cup Final
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Post by dixon13 on Oct 16, 2019 12:40:30 GMT
I think everyone as give their opinion,in the right manner.Even if it differs from mine.The forum at its best.
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Post by rickthered on Oct 16, 2019 15:38:00 GMT
Everyone certainly has their right to an opinion and absolutely this is the best place to air it. Two points re comments made above:
1. I'm pretty sure even when there isn't a video referee the match commissioner or fourth official at non-TV games has the ear of the referee which can and does change an initial decision made. I've also seen decisions changed on Sky TV games once evidence has been clear on the screen whether that be for foul play or if a scrum was initially given in the wrong direction etc. Not sure why that wasn't applied on Saturday to be honest, I guess the referee can ignore any comments he receives if he wishes to
2. The penalty count may not seem much different if indeed it was 7-5 but the point is it's not the number of penalties you receive but where your receive them that actually matters. Four of the five Salford received were inside their own 20 metre line, one basically on their own try line, every penalty bar one (for obstruction) Saints received were from inside the Salford half. That makes a massive difference in relation to attacking chances
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Post by salford1961 on Oct 16, 2019 15:40:59 GMT
In my opinion Kendall did not give Salford a fair crack of the whip, not because he had it in for Salford but because he took the easy option or he is just a bad referee. Nobody on this forum has suggested Salford lost because of him I believe they are fed up because he didn’t give Salford a fair crack. Just my opinion. That is my point too. He spoilt the game as a fair contest and removed the chance of any of the Salford players winning the Grand Final  |
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Post by prestwichred on Oct 16, 2019 20:30:33 GMT
In my opinion Kendall did not give Salford a fair crack of the whip, not because he had it in for Salford but because he took the easy option or he is just a bad referee. Nobody on this forum has suggested Salford lost because of him I believe they are fed up because he didn’t give Salford a fair crack. Just my opinion. That is my point too. He spoilt the game as a fair contest and removed the chance of any of the Salford players winning the Grand Final Let it go. The better team won. Even if those decisions had gone for Salford do you honestly believe we would have beat them. They were stronger in the first twenty and last twenty. Salford were on top in the last twenty of the first and the rest was even. They are a very very good team and unlike Wigan we did not get battered and humiliated. The game they played was the same as what they have done all year and that’s why the won the league by 16 points and are GF winners |
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Post by dixon13 on Oct 16, 2019 22:39:37 GMT
That is my point too. He spoilt the game as a fair contest and removed the chance of any of the Salford players winning the Grand Final Let it go. The better team won. Even if those decisions had gone for Salford do you honestly believe we would have beat them. They were stronger in the first twenty and last twenty. Salford were on top in the last twenty of the first and the rest was even. They are a very very good team and unlike Wigan we did not get battered and humiliated. The game they played was the same as what they have done all year and that’s why the won the league by 16 points and are GF winners I think everyone was in agreement all the time. That best team won,I think if you read all the post again you will see that. |
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