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Post by tasi on May 29, 2018 22:26:56 GMT
Koukash is a charlatan
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Post by bonitared on May 29, 2018 22:47:12 GMT
I can see both sides of this one to be honest. He's assured creditors that he'll pay it off (presumably whilst he remains owner of the club) but has now swerved it by stepping down as owner. As bonitared says once he doesn't own the club its no longer his debt. Sadly that's how it works in my eyes. Getting the other £5m debt off the books will be a major boost going forward. I presume (hope) the CVA can be negotiated into reasonable terms but the longer the creditors get zero back I presume they will become more unwilling to give the club any more time etc to make the repayments. In terms of the current situation it's not a priority however it is obviously something that will need to be factored into the clubs accounts/business plan from next season onwards. My guess is that JW has already come to terms with the fact that his money has gone. Sadly,he made his own decisions in the first place. Salford City Council is a creditor and ,politically, they can’t write the money off,which is why I think the CVA hasn’t been resolved. The debt is a bit acedemic and theoretical as the club will never be in a position to pay it off. Cash is King and what we have to worry about,financially, is paying our day to day bills. |
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Post by earlybath on May 30, 2018 6:25:00 GMT
I think you are very wrong there bonita. JW is no fool and there is no love lost between the two.
To both yourself & bringbacksalford I would reiterate that as far as I can see MK personally guaranteed the CVA.
It was not a debt of the new Company as far as I know & of course the debt would hamper discussions with any new saviour.
Andrew would know of course.
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Post by chief on May 30, 2018 8:52:33 GMT
There is an article on Totalrl.com , I don't know how to do links, in which AR makes a clear distinction between the old CVA and the loans from MK, totalling above £5m, which he has offered to write off.
The thread is getting stuck in counter arguments regarding the CVA which are irrelevant.
Support the club, help bring in new fans and spend what you can where it matters. Either that or keep quiet, cry into your beer and watch it disappear. Very simple choice.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2018 9:01:33 GMT
There is an article on Totalrl.com , I don't know how to do links, in which AR makes a clear distinction between the old CVA and the loans from MK, totalling above £5m, which he has offered to write off. The thread is getting stuck in counter arguments regarding the CVA which are irrelevant. Support the club, help bring in new fans and spend what you can where it matters. Either that or keep quiet, cry into your beer and watch it disappear. Very simple choice. This thread is titled ‘short term cashflow’ - I think a discussion on the terms of MK writing off his debt and the implications for the club are highly relevant to this. I don’t think anyone is being overly negative, they just seem to be trying to get to the bottom of what has been agreed. This is the purpose of a discussion forum. |
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Post by chief on May 30, 2018 9:29:06 GMT
There is an article on Totalrl.com , I don't know how to do links, in which AR makes a clear distinction between the old CVA and the loans from MK, totalling above £5m, which he has offered to write off. The thread is getting stuck in counter arguments regarding the CVA which are irrelevant. Support the club, help bring in new fans and spend what you can where it matters. Either that or keep quiet, cry into your beer and watch it disappear. Very simple choice. This thread is titled ‘short term cashflow’ - I think a discussion on the terms of MK writing off his debt and the implications for the club are highly relevant to this. I don’t think anyone is being overly negative, they just seem to be trying to get to the bottom of what has been agreed. This is the purpose of a discussion forum. Exactly - his debt... |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2018 9:40:34 GMT
I think the point people are trying to make is that if he has written off ‘his debt’ but at the same switched the guarantee for the CVA from himself (as agreed in the handover deal) to the club then we may not be in a better position as initially thought.
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Post by chief on May 30, 2018 11:30:56 GMT
I think the point people are trying to make is that if he has written off ‘his debt’ but at the same switched the guarantee for the CVA from himself (as agreed in the handover deal) to the club then we may not be in a better position as initially thought. I'm not privy to the amount of the CVA (£3m mentioned by others). That lies with the club, regardless. Don't get me wrong here, I believe MK is using this grand gesture to his own ends as, if we fold, he will lose the money he lent the company anyway. All supporters, especially those who hate MK should be doing all they can to meet the conditions attached to the offer - break even this year and next - and lose him £5m. We have a better chance going forward with £3m Debt than £8m - or am I missing something here??? |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2018 11:48:38 GMT
I think the point people are trying to make is that if he has written off ‘his debt’ but at the same switched the guarantee for the CVA from himself (as agreed in the handover deal) to the club then we may not be in a better position as initially thought. I'm not privy to the amount of the CVA (£3m mentioned by others). That lies with the club, regardless. Don't get me wrong here, I believe MK is using this grand gesture to his own ends as, if we fold, he will lose the money he lent the company anyway. All supporters, especially those who hate MK should be doing all they can to meet the conditions attached to the offer - break even this year and next - and lose him £5m. We have a better chance going forward with £3m Debt than £8m - or am I missing something here??? MK agreed that his debt wouldn’t be repayable until the club turned a profit. The CVA doesn’t have such relaxed terms. The danger is that the club could be asked to repay the CVA without having the means to do so. If MK is no longer guaranteeing that debt it could put the club in a sticky situation. I don’t know the details, or even if this is true, but that is what was being discussed in this thread I think. I agree though that regardless of the details we should be doing our upmost to keep the club afloat. |
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Post by chief on May 30, 2018 12:15:08 GMT
I don't know if a single person can give a personal guarantee relating to a CVA.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2018 14:16:34 GMT
I'm not privy to the amount of the CVA (£3m mentioned by others). That lies with the club, regardless. Don't get me wrong here, I believe MK is using this grand gesture to his own ends as, if we fold, he will lose the money he lent the company anyway. All supporters, especially those who hate MK should be doing all they can to meet the conditions attached to the offer - break even this year and next - and lose him £5m. We have a better chance going forward with £3m Debt than £8m - or am I missing something here??? I agree with this. Is the fans ownership model viable long term? Maybe/maybe not. But if we can get the club to a reasonably stable position over the next 18 months and lose a £5m debt from the accounts we'll have a much better chance of either doing it ourselves or someone being interested in taking over the club. |
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Post by Carnster on May 30, 2018 15:56:13 GMT
I'm not privy to the amount of the CVA (£3m mentioned by others). That lies with the club, regardless. Don't get me wrong here, I believe MK is using this grand gesture to his own ends as, if we fold, he will lose the money he lent the company anyway. All supporters, especially those who hate MK should be doing all they can to meet the conditions attached to the offer - break even this year and next - and lose him £5m. We have a better chance going forward with £3m Debt than £8m - or am I missing something here??? I agree with this. Is the fans ownership model viable long term? Maybe/maybe not. But if we can get the club to a reasonably stable position over the next 18 months and lose a £5m debt from the accounts we'll have a much better chance of either doing it ourselves or someone being interested in taking over the club. You make a good point and I'm in agreement.
The only thing that bothers me about 'survival' for us, is that we wont be in SL for us to survive. At least not in the short to mid term. To be in with a shot at making it on our own, assets will go. For us that's our players. It's not a problem I suppose, but it begs the question that if we can't make it in SL what makes us think that we can make it outside of it? Or will that be our level?
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Post by earlybath on May 30, 2018 17:29:19 GMT
We are all on the same Hymn Sheet here - my initial concern was to attract new Investors.
If the Club is Insolvent to the tune of £8 million then there is little hope to obtain new Investors.
It follows too that if the club is Insolvent to the tune of £3 million then the same pattern emerges.
We all need confirmation that the WHOLE £8+ million is down to MK. If that is the case and this debt can be ring fenced & isolated then surely we have a greater chance for people to invest. We all just need clarification.
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Post by bonitared on May 30, 2018 19:04:19 GMT
That’s a bloody big circle we’ve just been round !
😉😉
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2018 19:12:07 GMT
I agree with this. Is the fans ownership model viable long term? Maybe/maybe not. But if we can get the club to a reasonably stable position over the next 18 months and lose a £5m debt from the accounts we'll have a much better chance of either doing it ourselves or someone being interested in taking over the club. You make a good point and I'm in agreement.
The only thing that bothers me about 'survival' for us, is that we wont be in SL for us to survive. At least not in the short to mid term. To be in with a shot at making it on our own, assets will go. For us that's our players. It's not a problem I suppose, but it begs the question that if we can't make it in SL what makes us think that we can make it outside of it? Or will that be our level?
If we go down I fear the worst to be honest. Hence my constant mithering on here lately. We've got an opportunity to help out the club and keep one of only 12 top flight spots. If we go down I really think it could finish us off. Over dramatic perhaps but no players, no sky money, no academy and our only income will be coming from reduced sponsorship and sub 1500 crowds. Not much to add really. |
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