|
|
Post by Carnster on Nov 14, 2016 21:28:44 GMT
Carnster, I like the point about the Aussies taking the best practice from all over the world then going back and implementing it. It leads me to the point that our RFL do not run the game in the UK, the clubs do! The RFL then have to negotiate a path through the swamp that doesn't upset too many of the clubs (screw Salford, by all means, but Wigan, Leeds?). There is no leadership. There is nobody telling the clubs "This is the way we are going to do it. Get on with it!" The clubs need to surrender their control of the game and hand it over to a real governing body. How you finance that governing body is a good question, though. yeah it's not an ideal set-up for a modern sporting body. Once again, the close ties with the political left during the formative years has remained strong in our rules and practices. There's a strong 'democratic' theme that runs through RL as a governing body that kind of mirrors the feelings and rise of the left in politics. Which is fine until you get a small band of successful clubs who don't really have much interest in anything but the status quo. You have individuals that are powerful at leading clubs also calling shots on the governing body, and those shots are always with a vested interest. The lack of independence with the RFL has stifled the sport, no doubt. The thing is, it's so ingrained that I can't see it changing at all... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 23:09:16 GMT
Went to the game yesterday and had a brilliant day out, in fact the worst part of the day was the actual rugby.
What got me was the sheer volume of people who I'd guess were well and truly from inside the M25, spoke to many who said they (like us) had got their tickets for £12.50 and that is was a brilliant deal for London, there was actually a shed load of people in England and club RU shirts at the game, what disappoints and worries me is that we enticed them and put on a display of utter cack you'd struggle to sell the greatest game to the people who attended based on that performance.
For me we struggle on an international level as to the Aussies (who in the main play SOO) find games like that less intense than the week in week out fodder of the NRL easy, but the real strtling thing is we have no creativity. I can honestly think of 10+ half backs the Aussies/Kiwis haven't brought who are better than the glorified water carriers we played. Kevin Brown should have been in his off season break in Rhyl the last 3 weekends not puling on an representative jersey as he is below average at best and the rest are marginally better. We will always match teams up front as we have genuine talent but in the backs nada, nowt or bugger all.
I honestly think bring back the Lions, bring back tours and for Gods sake stop blindly relying on imported 6,7, 9 and 13's.
|
|
|
|
Post by bonitared on Nov 14, 2016 23:44:16 GMT
Yes,I wondered about the half back selection and then looked at the bench , Denis Betts was sitting there and it made sense.
Call me old fashioned but a proper scrum half and running stand off would've made a better impression.
Kevin Brown is ok but ok isn't good enough. Widdop wouldn't make the side if he was uk based.
What's happened to Watkins,he used to be a monster.
Depressing but this isn't about left wing politics,which is overthinking it, it's about it being the Aussies national sport and better weather and facilities.
Thank goodness we didn't have the scam of a few years ago where we were allowed to win a game to make it interesting.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carnster on Nov 15, 2016 9:28:27 GMT
Depressing but this isn't about left wing politics,which is overthinking it The left wing associations with RL was more concerning the running of the governing body and its history. Not an observation on the performance of the team. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 10:07:53 GMT
We should give Mr Trump a position as honoury president of the RFL, that should get rid of those pesky left wing mamby pamby pinkos  |
|
|
|
Post by Carnster on Nov 15, 2016 10:26:13 GMT
There's nothing wrong with the left in politics, I was trying to highlight the fact that RL was born out of political strife for the working classes and its structure has always embraced an equal say for everyone ethos. The irony being that this system nowadays is actually hindering the governance of the sports ruling body. It can't make bold decisions if it wanted to. Too much vested interest from the interconnected nature of those that are involved in the sport. Clubs always looking short term and not long term for the good of the game.
You also get inexplicable decisions like two double-header weekends this season, and the fact we play more games in SL than in the NRL. We burn out players quicker than Australia. We lack intensity in the majority of games and have no prestigious UK competition like the SOO. The RFL don't help themselves on this matter. Making strange decisions that wont help anyone.
|
|
|
|
Post by hammerlessnail on Nov 15, 2016 12:44:35 GMT
NRL is better than SL, simply. They also have the bonus of it being their National sport, more money, more amateur clubs, more kids playing it, and therefore more talent to pick from. It was still their national sport in the 40 50 and 60 when we beat them.The trouble was we started getting these second rate Aussie coaches comming over telling us to copy them.Now our Super League is the B movie. I don't think you can blame it on "second rate Aussie coaches". There aren't many Australian coaches in SL now. In fact, there will be as many Salfordians coaching at SL level as Australians next year. I think the problem lies with the relative sizes of the sport in Australia and Britain. They have feeder clubs, national coverage, proper structures, plenty of kids playing the sport, etc. We have none of these. England beating Australia would be a bit like Iceland beating England at football, and that would never happen. What? It did? |
|
|
|
Post by tony13 on Nov 16, 2016 20:18:19 GMT
There's nothing wrong with the left in politics, I was trying to highlight the fact that RL was born out of political strife for the working classes and its structure has always embraced an equal say for everyone ethos. The irony being that this system nowadays is actually hindering the governance of the sports ruling body. It can't make bold decisions if it wanted to. Too much vested interest from the interconnected nature of those that are involved in the sport. Clubs always looking short term and not long term for the good of the game. You also get inexplicable decisions like two double-header weekends this season, and the fact we play more games in SL than in the NRL. We burn out players quicker than Australia. We lack intensity in the majority of games and have no prestigious UK competition like the SOO. The RFL don't help themselves on this matter. Making strange decisions that wont help anyone. Pretty much what I was alluding to. We need a ruling body that rules. "We're doing it this way!" We don't need a ruling body that bends to the will of club chairmen. "How should we do it, Mr Hetherington/Leneghan/whoever? Okay, we'll do it that way." As long as club chairmen call the shots, we'll have a game ruled by the self-interest of a small group of 'powerful' individuals, instead of a thriving, global sport. (And I know it isn't just that easy!) |
|
|
|
Post by boltonred on Nov 18, 2016 13:34:31 GMT
For me the difference seems to be how we shape our players (possibly at grass roots level), feels like a natural ability and desire to sling it around is beaten out of England players to conform to ordered structure
England seem to play with a regimented style, its all ordered which is fine if it is executed correctly. But also it means we are a bit predictable going forward. However when you watch the aussies/southern hemisphere players play they seem to be more willing to play off the cuff. They seem to look for offloads all the time and are clearly more willing to move the ball in both directions around a defence rather than just trying to batter through it (England style).
No idea how to change that culture though.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 14:01:46 GMT
Remember once at Hope High playing an inter form game and getting bollocked for off loading and that was back when we dodged Dinosaur poo on the pitch.
Said it when the squad was picked that we don't have one creative halve in the country. Rangi was the last really creative player picked for England and even he had that flair beaten out of him by ineffectual management.
Hopefully if Tomkins can regain full fitness he will play in the halves as at least he has that X factor the Aussies seem to have in abundance, I'd also suggest that new centres need to be found, hell I'd have picked JJ before Watkins who seems to discovered a rich vein shiteness. If Hardaker avoids any nonsense this year he should start at full back and hope that a miracle youngster appears this season.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carnster on Nov 18, 2016 14:05:44 GMT
For me the difference seems to be how we shape our players (possibly at grass roots level), feels like a natural ability and desire to sling it around is beaten out of England players to conform to ordered structure England seem to play with a regimented style, its all ordered which is fine if it is executed correctly. But also it means we are a bit predictable going forward. However when you watch the aussies/southern hemisphere players play they seem to be more willing to play off the cuff. They seem to look for offloads all the time and are clearly more willing to move the ball in both directions around a defence rather than just trying to batter through it (England style). No idea how to change that culture though. Interesting you should say this as I was reading an article not long ago in the Australian press that said the same things about Australian forwards. It said that because of the structure imposed throughout the game, young forwards were discouraged from developing an effective passing game. This article coming off the back of the Australian game singing the praises of the English lads down under. The likes of Graham, Whitehead, Sam Burgess etc. It also asked questions at why Queensland produces so many quality half backs, and the conclusion was the same. That in NSW, HB's were over-coached whereas in Queensland they were free to express themselves more. I think the fact that there isn't a decent structure in place for youngsters to progress up the ladder means that we miss a few gems that turn away from the sport. I think for every Shawn Edwards there's at least another one of similar ability that gets away, possibly more. Because of that lack of structure we are less likely to spot the ones falling through the net. This for me is the crucial difference between the hemisphere's. I think Bennett is right in saying that the lack of more success Internationally for England/GB is mainly a mental one. It's got to the point where it's a real monkey on the back and we play with a desire not to lose rather than with a desire to win. It manifests itself as being a little too conservative in execution, and relies on structure rather than ability. |
|
|
|
Post by russ on Nov 20, 2016 11:58:00 GMT
Carnster, I like the point about the Aussies taking the best practice from all over the world then going back and implementing it. It leads me to the point that our RFL do not run the game in the UK, the clubs do! The RFL then have to negotiate a path through the swamp that doesn't upset too many of the clubs (screw Salford, by all means, but Wigan, Leeds?). There is no leadership. There is nobody telling the clubs "This is the way we are going to do it. Get on with it!" The clubs need to surrender their control of the game and hand it over to a real governing body. How you finance that governing body is a good question, though. yeah it's not an ideal set-up for a modern sporting body. Once again, the close ties with the political left during the formative years has remained strong in our rules and practices. There's a strong 'democratic' theme that runs through RL as a governing body that kind of mirrors the feelings and rise of the left in politics. Which is fine until you get a small band of successful clubs who don't really have much interest in anything but the status quo. You have individuals that are powerful at leading clubs also calling shots on the governing body, and those shots are always with a vested interest. The lack of independence with the RFL has stifled the sport, no doubt. The thing is, it's so ingrained that I can't see it changing at all... I don't agree with you here Carnster I think like most movements of the time it was the Middle class owners/chairmen of clubs who made the break and their control of the game as opposed to some body who might impose similar restrictions to the rfu was in the forefront of their minds more like the American Revolution than the Blanketeers or Levelers, more John Adams than Keir Hardie and definitely more Gordon Browne than any socialist in the whole of forever. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 16:20:10 GMT
This is a quote on the BBC today, sums up one of the main issues that England faced during the Four Nations event.
FYI this is a quote from Jeremy Guscott regarding the current issues for the Welsh RU team, goes to show that in any sport you need to have a solid creative spine, not a constant conveyor belt of mediocrity.
|
|
|
|
Post by gadger on Nov 21, 2016 19:52:41 GMT
He is one odious individual, almost as detestable as John Inverdale
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 20:12:45 GMT
He is one odious individual, almost as detestable as John Inverdale Thanks, we can close the thread now such insight has been proffered. |
|
