Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2016 5:59:51 GMT
Just looked at the 4 Nations squad and spotted Kevin Brown has been picked!
Good God Edwards and Gregory surely must still be a better option.
We have forwards to match any in the world, a back line that if they show some balls can match our friends from down under but our halves production line in the UK/SL is dire, so bad I can't think the last time we produced a truly world class 6 or 7.
|
|
|
|
Post by russ on Oct 22, 2016 6:57:26 GMT
Lots of possibly different threads here michigan.
How bad is SL? Well it's never ever been quite as bad as its critics like to make out anymore than NRL is as good as it it imagined to be.
Kevin Browne can be a match winner and given Bettsy is on board you'd expect him to figure.
Luke Gale and Widdop look the best alternative at the moment.
Not being able to produce world class half-backs is an altogether different story.
And coming from fans of a team without an under 19's side the explanation is right there.
But if you want more Kevin Tamato once said of a Reds player "He's not a playmaker and I haven't go the time to make him into one!" Sort of sums it up for top level coaches for me, that one.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carnster on Oct 22, 2016 8:29:18 GMT
I agree MR.
Brown is one of the most overrated halves I've seen for years. His only real talent is being able to throw it forward and not get picked up on it. Widdop is a decent half, but he's lacked that flair that world-class HB's have in abundance. Gale has played decently and deserves a shot, but we simply don't produce halves like we used to.
SL is decent enough, but it's second-class to NRL whether you like it or not.
As for Brown being picked because of Betts, russ. Blatant favouritism shouldn't be something a coach brings with him to an International position.
|
|
|
|
Post by russ on Oct 22, 2016 9:17:09 GMT
I agree MR. Brown is one of the most overrated halves I've seen for years. His only real talent is being able to throw it forward and not get picked up on it. Widdop is a decent half, but he's lacked that flair that world-class HB's have in abundance. Gale has played decently and deserves a shot, but we simply don't produce halves like we used to. SL is decent enough, but it's second-class to NRL whether you like it or not. As for Brown being picked because of Betts, russ. Blatant favouritism shouldn't be something a coach brings with him to an International position. That forward pass could come in very handy against the Roos. I know that the NRL is superior and it's obvious why, but my issue about its imagined level is a sore point with me. The Aussies sell the NRL wonderfully positively and put down RL quality everywhere else. This is bad for the Game's image and does nothing to promote the game worldwide. You only have to see the attitude to the WCC for this. The favouritism bit is in every coach and can't be helped. I think Widdop and Gale alongside The obvious choice for hooker is as good a starting point as we've had for some time. The inability of our system and coaches to produce top class halves has been clear for some time and yet nothing seems to have been put in place to do anything about it! Could it be we have too many forwards in top coaching positions in this country? |
|
|
|
Post by gadger on Oct 22, 2016 9:56:16 GMT
How many really good halves are there in nrl? I only really see Thurston and Johnson, granted I don't watch as much nrl as I used to.
I think the games gone away from flair a bit in general, it's a lot more about speed and lines, more than off the cuff.
Who has been the best in super league era, maybe long?
|
|
|
|
Post by Carnster on Oct 22, 2016 10:32:32 GMT
How many really good halves are there in nrl? I only really see Thurston and Johnson, granted I don't watch as much nrl as I used to. I think the games gone away from flair a bit in general, it's a lot more about speed and lines, more than off the cuff. Who has been the best in super league era, maybe long? Cronk, Cherry-Evans, Ben Hunt, Mitchell Pearce, Adam Reynolds, Trent Hodkinson, Benji Marshall, Tyrone Roberts, Blake Austin as well as the ones you said. Just off the top of my head. All these players would walk into any SL side and even our National side. I think the last truly world-class HB we produced was Edwards, and that's a long time ago now. |
|
|
|
Post by gadger on Oct 22, 2016 10:47:05 GMT
How many really good halves are there in nrl? I only really see Thurston and Johnson, granted I don't watch as much nrl as I used to. I think the games gone away from flair a bit in general, it's a lot more about speed and lines, more than off the cuff. Who has been the best in super league era, maybe long? Cronk, Cherry-Evans, Ben Hunt, Mitchell Pearce, Adam Reynolds, Trent Hodkinson, Benji Marshall, Tyrone Roberts, Blake Austin as well as the ones you said. Just off the top of my head. All these players would walk into any SL side and even our National side. I think the last truly world-class HB we produced was Edwards, and that's a long time ago now. Not saying they wouldn't, but are they that good? I just mean in general it feels half backs just aren't as good as they used to be |
|
|
|
Post by dixon13 on Oct 22, 2016 11:30:05 GMT
Very bad I am afraid.Thats why we have not beat Australia in the Super League era.And this is frome someone who is old enough to remember when we beat then quite a lot.We use to beat them because we had players as good in Alec Murphys better.We are now playing like the Australians did twenty years ago.How many on this forum will be visiting Fred Done to back England.I am sorry but the Super League is light years behind the NRL and it pains me to say it.If you don't believe me ask James Graham and or Sam Burgess Or the great Mal Reily or better still ask Tompkins and Burgess two who who were brilliat in Super League for Wigan who came back because they could not make it.Like I say the Sky Super is light yeas behind and the majority know it we just don't like to admit it.And know I will not be visiting Fred.
|
|
|
|
Post by russ on Oct 22, 2016 12:46:46 GMT
Very bad I am afraid.That's why we have not beat Australia in the Super League era.And this is from someone who is old enough to remember when we beat then quite a lot.We use to beat them because we had players as good in Alec Murphy & better.We are now playing like the Australians did twenty years ago.How many on this forum will be visiting Fred Done to back England.I am sorry but the Super League is light years behind the NRL and it pains me to say it.If you don't believe me ask James Graham and or Sam Burgess Or the great Mal Reilly or better still ask Tompkins and Burgess two who who were brilliant in Super League for Wigan who came back because they could not make it.Like I say the Sky Super is light yeas behind and the majority know it we just don't like to admit it.And know I will not be visiting Fred. This is why I try to keep it on an even keel dixon13. There is certainly some truth in the distance between the NRL and SL. It does not lie in the production of forwards otherwise the NRL would not be looking at SL's front line so obviously and carefully every time they're in this country. It's no longer true that we're completely dominated in terms of the forwards. It's the half back role where our weakness lies and our production line fails. No one ever improved by comparing their poorer output to better quality. You get better yourself by putting stuff in place that will change your quality and then you go up against the competition to measure your improvement. But this has to be done from top to bottom with everyone involved in the game playing their part. We are too divided between club and international, between professional and amateur and governing body and chairmen for this to happen. |
|
|
|
Post by russ on Oct 22, 2016 13:01:19 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by dixon13 on Oct 22, 2016 13:58:32 GMT
Very bad I am afraid.That's why we have not beat Australia in the Super League era.And this is from someone who is old enough to remember when we beat then quite a lot.We use to beat them because we had players as good in Alec Murphy & better.We are now playing like the Australians did twenty years ago.How many on this forum will be visiting Fred Done to back England.I am sorry but the Super League is light years behind the NRL and it pains me to say it.If you don't believe me ask James Graham and or Sam Burgess Or the great Mal Reilly or better still ask Tompkins and Burgess two who who were brilliant in Super League for Wigan who came back because they could not make it.Like I say the Sky Super is light yeas behind and the majority know it we just don't like to admit it.And know I will not be visiting Fred. This is why I try to keep it on an even keel dixon13. There is certainly some truth in the distance between the NRL and SL. It does not lie in the production of forwards otherwise the NRL would not be looking at SL's front line so obviously and carefully every time they're in this country. It's no longer true that we're completely dominated in terms of the forwards. It's the half back role where our weakness lies and our production line fails. No one ever improved by comparing their poorer output to better quality. You get better yourself by putting stuff in place that will change your quality and then you go up against the competition to measure your improvement. But this has to be done from top to bottom with everyone involved in the game playing their part. We are too divided between club and international, between professional and amateur and governing body and chairmen for this to happen. The question was how good is Super League and I am sorry to say its not very good that's just the way I see it I am not having ago. |
|
|
|
Post by russ on Oct 22, 2016 15:45:09 GMT
This is why I try to keep it on an even keel dixon13. There is certainly some truth in the distance between the NRL and SL. It does not lie in the production of forwards otherwise the NRL would not be looking at SL's front line so obviously and carefully every time they're in this country. It's no longer true that we're completely dominated in terms of the forwards. It's the half back role where our weakness lies and our production line fails. No one ever improved by comparing their poorer output to better quality. You get better yourself by putting stuff in place that will change your quality and then you go up against the competition to measure your improvement. But this has to be done from top to bottom with everyone involved in the game playing their part. We are too divided between club and international, between professional and amateur and governing body and chairmen for this to happen. The question was how good is Super League and I am sorry to say its not very good that's just the way I see it I am not having ago. No one thought you were having a go, just a difference of opinion that's all. This is not Total RL where you mention something and it's blocked or sent to somewhere the Vichies can pull it apart to their hearts content.The "failures" you mention have very different reasons why they've returned and just to put them down as couldn't cope is to tell less than half the story. If SL was that bad and the NRL that good the transition would be slow to insurmountable and it quite clearly isn't for our best players. We make too much of their qualities and too little of what we have that's really good. This does nothing to help find solutions to improve the quality of our players over all. |
|
|
|
Post by scoot on Oct 22, 2016 15:51:32 GMT
This is why I try to keep it on an even keel dixon13. There is certainly some truth in the distance between the NRL and SL. It does not lie in the production of forwards otherwise the NRL would not be looking at SL's front line so obviously and carefully every time they're in this country. It's no longer true that we're completely dominated in terms of the forwards. It's the half back role where our weakness lies and our production line fails. No one ever improved by comparing their poorer output to better quality. You get better yourself by putting stuff in place that will change your quality and then you go up against the competition to measure your improvement. But this has to be done from top to bottom with everyone involved in the game playing their part. We are too divided between club and international, between professional and amateur and governing body and chairmen for this to happen. The question was how good is Super League and I am sorry to say its not very good that's just the way I see it I am not having ago. The rot set in when we brought the Aussie caches in. It was all defence and zombiefied and the English coaches copied them. Thats when we started to lose our flair |
|
|
|
Post by russ on Oct 22, 2016 16:07:59 GMT
"The rot set in when we brought the Aussie caches in. It was all defence and zombiefied and the English coaches copied them. That's when we started to lose our flair"
There's a lot in that scoot we lost the ability to find English solutions to the problem of Aussie dominance. I also think the talent was spread a bit more widely in the past,there was a bit more of it and even the types of job people did in the past made a difference.
|
|
|
|
Post by red666 on Oct 22, 2016 16:44:39 GMT
The game is so much faster these days that I think the flair element of half back and stand off has been nullified. We are seeing the 3 pivot play with the fullback becoming more and more prevalent.
|
|
