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Post by redgunner on Oct 16, 2016 16:46:33 GMT
I am hearing disturbing cuts to the back room staff, if true we are unlikely to be seeing local talent 🤔
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Post by redgunner on Oct 19, 2016 18:37:14 GMT
I am hearing disturbing cuts to the back room staff, if true we are unlikely to be seeing local talent 🤔 Well it appears it is true, I was told Morley, carvell, academy, under 19s & more were to be cut. It now seems what I was told from a good source was correct. Talk about own goals. The club had developed a good feel factor, I cannot believe he had his own marketing companies. How not to promote your club should be the title. MK now got no one to stop him, loose cannon strikes again. Finally I renewed my family season tickets & paid in full before the news if I had known I would have not renewed, how many more will now hold back. |
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Post by russ on Oct 20, 2016 6:04:26 GMT
Now as you know I'm not a fan of MK bashing cos I think most of it is completely unfounded and based upon personal prejudices, but if we're losing the pathway because of cuts that has to be down to the Doc. Short-termism is why the club has always seemed to be one step away from ............ fill in as applicable. But on the obverse unless WE turn up in numbers it's no good moaning at the person keeping the club afloat and make no bones about it he is SRD's RFL Sky money! The sense of balance missing on other forums is what we need here.  |
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Post by Carnster on Oct 20, 2016 8:04:37 GMT
Now as you know I'm not a fan of MK bashing cos I think most of it is completely unfounded and based upon personal prejudices, but if we're losing the pathway because of cuts that has to be down to the Doc. Short-termism is why the club has always seemed to be one step away from ............ fill in as applicable. But on the obverse unless WE turn up in numbers it's no good moaning at the person keeping the club afloat and make no bones about it he is SRD's RFL Sky money! The sense of balance missing on other forums is what we need here. You're quite right on this one russ. It's the elephant in the room in this situation that hasn't cropped-up elsewhere. If we consistently got more people through the gate we wouldn't be so financially precarious that scrapping the youth set-up was a viable alternative. We simply can't survive as a club without getting more through the gate. |
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Post by redgunner on Oct 20, 2016 8:52:38 GMT
Now as you know I'm not a fan of MK bashing cos I think most of it is completely unfounded and based upon personal prejudices, but if we're losing the pathway because of cuts that has to be down to the Doc. Short-termism is why the club has always seemed to be one step away from ............ fill in as applicable. But on the obverse unless WE turn up in numbers it's no good moaning at the person keeping the club afloat and make no bones about it he is SRD's RFL Sky money! The sense of balance missing on other forums is what we need here. I have renewed my family season tickets & paid in full for 2017 I return because I believe in my club & the history despite my personal feelings for the person running our club. I believe my comments to be fair & balanced. I am not a supporter of the owner due to his poor continued judgments, however I respect he as the right to make these decisions although I do not believe they will be to his benefit & that of the club I have supported for near on 50 years. |
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Post by middleman on Oct 20, 2016 10:26:22 GMT
I'm with Russ on this - in the euphoria following our - great escape there has been a great wave of positivity.
I'm sure everyone reading the post of the letter Carvell had to write to his charges informing them of the cut was depressing .
the first impulse is the rail against the owner & the ' short-term-ism ' of this .
having had a night to sleep on it & as always with me try to see it from the other point of view ( even though as yet we do not know exactly what the new structure - if any will be ) .
cold reality dawns -:- We were seconds from dropping out of SL 3 weeks ago - had that happened - cuts would have been inevitable anyway .
we have been running a Full Academy & SL Squad core support of 2-3000 through the gate & the good will of the Owner - even Hull FC & KR with their combined turnover have had to look at partnering
We are still occupying a stadium that has a stringent rent & limited income streams to create revenue for our club
Corporate sponsorship has vastly reduced. & significant portion of Salford's Sky revenue to still being diverted to the CVA payoff of the Wilkinson Era Club
Even if we persisted with a Academy structure in an effort to produce future players 4-5 years hence - what guarantee can be given to prospective young players - Parents that there is a stable club there at the end to employ them
? 200K to run an self contained Academy or 200k to bolster our 1st team squad so it doesn't fall into the Qualifiers & Jeopardy for a 3rd season in a row .? a stable league position for 4-5 years is now crucial to the clubs existence .
The Dr is guilty of many dumb things and it is right to feel depressed / angry - but the DR didn't invent short termism at Salford , it's been in it's bones for decades.
At least we do need to hear the full facts about the changes before we leap to any final conclusion .
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Post by eehred on Oct 20, 2016 10:33:04 GMT
At first I was very angry about the news, but in the cold light of day I can't argue with middleman.
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Post by redgunner on Oct 20, 2016 11:02:52 GMT
At first I was very angry about the news, but in the cold light of day I can't argue with middleman. Unfortunately for me we probably better playing at championship level as we cannot support a case to be at super league level. I have a business & running at a loss it would not take too long before becoming insolvent so I do understand the need to balance the books. MK spends too much time contradicting himself. The decision by Tim Sheen makes me question if this is the real reason He decided it was time to move on. I understand all the arguments about why, however to me it feel like another nail has been put into our long term future. |
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Post by Carnster on Oct 20, 2016 11:35:46 GMT
I'm with Russ on this - in the euphoria following our - great escape there has been a great wave of positivity.
I'm sure everyone reading the post of the letter Carvell had to write to his charges informing them of the cut was depressing .
the first impulse is the rail against the owner & the ' short-term-ism ' of this .
having had a night to sleep on it & as always with me try to see it from the other point of view ( even though as yet we do not know exactly what the new structure - if any will be ) .
cold reality dawns -:- We were seconds from dropping out of SL 3 weeks ago - had that happened - cuts would have been inevitable anyway .
we have been running a Full Academy & SL Squad core support of 2-3000 through the gate & the good will of the Owner - even Hull FC & KR with their combined turnover have had to look at partnering
We are still occupying a stadium that has a stringent rent & limited income streams to create revenue for our club
Corporate sponsorship has vastly reduced. & significant portion of Salford's Sky revenue to still being diverted to the CVA payoff of the Wilkinson Era Club
Even if we persisted with a Academy structure in an effort to produce future players 4-5 years hence - what guarantee can be given to prospective young players - Parents that there is a stable club there at the end to employ them
? 200K to run an self contained Academy or 200k to bolster our 1st team squad so it doesn't fall into the Qualifiers & Jeopardy for a 3rd season in a row .? a stable league position for 4-5 years is now crucial to the clubs existence .
The Dr is guilty of many dumb things and it is right to feel depressed / angry - but the DR didn't invent short termism at Salford , it's been in it's bones for decades.
At least we do need to hear the full facts about the changes before we leap to any final conclusion .
You've hit the nail on the head, mm. For me at least. I initially thought the worst when announced, but can now see the harsh decisions that need to be made. It wont be forever, but I do feel sorry for the current crop of lads. |
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Post by gadger on Oct 20, 2016 11:56:44 GMT
Yep me too, headline certainly isn't good news but can see the reasons for it when you look at the facts and figures.
Lets see what he has to say at this Q&A sesh on Monday, interested to hear the long term plan
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Post by jgr on Oct 20, 2016 12:04:46 GMT
I’m sorry Middle Man but I must disagree with you. Whilst we were seconds away from relegation and cuts would have been inevitable, we ultimately wasn’t relegated and due to the manner of the victory I expected us to sell more season tickets this season than we did last year. In addition to the extra income from ST we knew Tim Sheens was leaving which provided the club with a saving of a couple of hundred thousand per annum.
The only reason we have been running a full academy and Super League squad on a core support of 2,000 is down Marwan Koukash mismanagement and inability to adhere to the RFL guidelines. Prior to the 6 point deduction we were averaging 4,500 which isn’t bad for little old Salford given the recent turmoil and negative publicity over high profile player and coach departures.
Hull FC and KR did not merge for financial reasons. They merged because you had two clubs fighting in the same city for the same players, ultimately leading the both clubs having their own interests at heart as opposed to the development of young Hull talent which should be the primary concern. The merger makes complete sense from a development point of view. I am sure there are also some financial savings which is an added bonus (not that either team need to make savings – particularly FC).
Corporate sponsorship again has vastly reduced because companies do not want to be associated with the club whilst Marwan Koukash is in charge. The manner in which he operates and portrays himself isn’t the kind of relationship many businesses wish to harness or be associated with. Just think what the sponsors of players like Rangi Chase, Kevin Locke, Gareth Hock, Harrison Hansen, Tony Puletua etc must have thought?
The “Embed The Pathway” programme which was implemented this year was the best thing to happen to this club since Koukash took over. Granted it was instigated by Tim Sheens but it was a great idea and one that would serve Salford RLFC well for the foreseeable future. We were taking the best 14, 15 and 16 year players from within and around Salford putting them on our development programme. Training sessions would held by Sheens, Watto and Carvell and these young lads would then ultimately be signed up to the U19’s and hopefully progress into the first team. We wouldn’t have seen the benefit of this for a number of years but it was an investment well worth making.
Also whilst an academy might cost ÂŁ200k to run, the club receive circa ÂŁ100k in funding from the RFL so therefore the net cost to the club is ÂŁ100k. Not much money when you consider that pays for an entire U19 squad, coaches, medical staff, travel costs etc.
There are no more facts for Koukash to present. We have scrapped our academy and are instead running with a “Category 3” academy team that will operate in the university leagues. No academy player worth their salt will play in that league.
I was hugely disillusioned by Koukash last season and the manner of the MPG victory has changed that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 12:19:45 GMT
I'm more with JGR than MM.
I smell a rat though, there is something else coming, the very fact that the silence from the club when this is so damaging to the prospect of season ticket sales is damning in my eyes.
Where is this Q&A?
Corporate sponsorship should have gone through the roof after the MPG win, we were everywhere so companies should have been contacted in and offered cheaper buy now rates, better to get as many as possible in with cheaper rates than the odd one one the full one.
To my thinking we will need to vastly increase the squad size if we have no academy to fall back on, if the juniors we do keep will be playing at a lower level they are never going to be able to jump in at the deep end that is SL. No what will happen is we will go cap in hand and borrow other teams bit part players and end up mid season with an on loan player taking the field with number 40+ on his back.
Shouldn't Salford, Swinton, Oldham and Rochdale look at doing something similar to Hull? Utilise the facilities at City's ground and form if you want a Greater Manchester academy, biggest catchment area and some of those areas RL is the main sport. We might even end up with more talent that we current scrap by with. Do teams from lower leagues get monies from the RFL for an academy? surely it would be good for them to have a super one that can be much more specialised?
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Post by middleman on Oct 20, 2016 13:14:29 GMT
I’m sorry Middle Man but I must disagree with you. ..
Corporate sponsorship again has vastly reduced because companies do not want to be associated with the club whilst Marwan Koukash is in charge. The manner in which he operates and portrays himself isn’t the kind of relationship many businesses wish to harness or be associated with. Just think what the sponsors of players like Rangi Chase, Kevin Locke, Gareth Hock, Harrison Hansen, Tony Puletua etc must have thought?
It's OK , I don't agree with myself either , My post was ' lets see it from another view ' and went on to list the pitfalls , not all directly a fault , more a consequence .
I don't have to think about what sponsors would think as we were a sponsor of 1 of the above ! - again however Hospitality - Sponsorship Budget have been drastically reduced at my company & I guess many others . so whilst the owners colourful character is a factor . it's not the only explanation . Salford are in Gtr MCR - so getting sponsorship should be a doddle , - by definition London Broncos should've been the best sponsored Team In European RL
I've tried to stay away from the what if's - the past mistakes- bad players have come - gone - the Willows has gone - Tim sheens has gone - it's about today & what we can / cannot do onward .
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Post by gadger on Oct 20, 2016 13:18:18 GMT
Agree with a lot of what you say jgr, but 100k is a lot of money. A lot more than I'll ever spend on solly. He has always said the club needs to be self sustainable, cost cutting is inevitable until we either get a cheaper stadium and / or get more paying punters through the door
Michigan, Q&A is at the club Monday night. Agree entirely with greater manchester region academy, that could be a good idea.
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Post by jgr on Oct 20, 2016 15:13:47 GMT
I'd love to have a look over Salford's accounts just to see what Marwan Koukash's personal expenditure really is. Don't forget as a club we receive ÂŁ1.80m funding from the RFL each season plus the money for the academy. With other revenue streams such as sponsorship, merchandise, ST sales etc surely we can afford to run an academy team?
It's even worse when you consider we're losing the wages of Sheens and Mozza to. It's one thing to have cuts but these seem drastic, particularly given the promising ST sales.
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