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Post by hillbillyred on May 16, 2017 15:24:42 GMT
Moving is different from the name: Swinton and Oldham do not play in their home towns and Sheffield ... But, again, look at the way the move has affected the support.
Simple: following the club has been a central part of my remaining a Salfordian despite living in Rochdale for nearly 26 years. I have been described as a Rochdalian and even an Oldhamer (I worked there for 17 years) but refuse either/both monikers. The club decides not to be Salford and there goes my tie. So bye bye. Sad but decided. i will not turn away from RL but I will not have a team.
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Post by hillbillyred on May 16, 2017 15:10:52 GMT
we are talking a Rugby League club.
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Post by hillbillyred on May 16, 2017 11:58:35 GMT
Thanks for the reporting.
Dave Bainbridge also wrote a letter to Rugby Leaguer (etc.) that is almost worth the price of the paper. One quote: "Although we do not measure in our ten of thousands, we have an extremely passionate, knowledgeable and loyal group of followers and we are absolutely horrified that our temporary custodian, who probably won't even be around in five years time, is contemplating disregarding 144 years of history of our great club, due to finance."
I'm not sure we can compare ourselves to Mr Chamberlain but vigilance is needed. Sports clubs need to be ran as businesses but attract passionate belief as if they were religions. Ignore either and a club fails. Especially at Salford. Unlike many clubs in Yorkshire or on the M6 corridor, we can reflect on the decline of Swinton, Oldham and Rochdale Hornets, and the eclipse of Broughton Rangers: all neighbours that were giants. Kill us off and RL in the Greater Manchester Conurbation will be championship, at best, and with an ageing population. From Huddersfield (perhaps from Leeds) to Wigan, there will be a gap. Surely RL HQ realises a name change is a bet on a future with no media impact in most of the north.
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Post by hillbillyred on May 9, 2017 15:31:03 GMT
If we ignore the M6 corridor, Rugby League in the west of Pennines has not had a history of popularity for several decades. A brief look at the history of Swinton and Oldham shows that they were attracting reasonable crowds but, once they went into decline, the crowds went into greater decline. Rochdale have long been unable to pack them in: they were complaining about small crowds in the 1920's!
We cannot compare to Wigan or Leeds as we are in a different market. How to research it is the crux. If the survey suggests a way then it'll be worth it.
MR: I was thinking something similar but not just the council. Perhaps us.
Add to the mix, Manchester Rangers applying to join League 1 as a Manchester team
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Post by hillbillyred on May 9, 2017 11:46:57 GMT
I agree with all of the above; the issue with moving has two parts. One is the lease of which I cannot see Peel ignoring the financial implications. The other is the position of the City of Salford. The city has financial interests in the stadium but also is owed money by the club. Salford has a political interest in keeping Salford RLFC in Salford but probably would not agree to a second stadium within the city.
It's just that I cannot see a name change bringing in enough fans to balance the loss of fans. Sale Manchester did not work.
As an aside, Manchester was made a city in 1853, Salford in 1926. However Manchester was made a town in 1301 whereas Salford was a town from 1230.
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Post by hillbillyred on May 5, 2017 14:30:52 GMT
AMEN A comment about being a Salfordian: I remember being told that I wasn't a real Salfordian as I lived at the Heights: only real Salfordians were from Ordsall and Chapel Street. I also seem to remember a comment about this in Perry Boys. When I went to school at De La Salle, it was stated it was in Pendleton. Many older inhabitants of Eccles Old Road also stated they lived in Pendleton. Then there were the anti-semitic comments about the people from Broughton (despite, from memory again) more Glaswegian accents in the two Broughtons in this period (60's and 70's). Five years ago, a friend stated she was fed up with reading Eccles, Salford as it was not in Salford: yes, she lives in the Ordsall area! So don't worry IrishRed: the above definitions explain why there are so few Salfordians and so, possibly, so few fans ( ). Nobody wins once mental borders are so firm. Now, after the match, home to Rochdale and even more bitter them and us: try Rochdale and Middleton!
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Post by hillbillyred on May 4, 2017 11:31:49 GMT
A SIDE ISSUE : one to make as crowd numbers have been raised
"on September 11th, 2011, 10,146 people felt they could identify as Salford fans sufficiently enough to turn up for the last game at The Willows. Similarly, on February 16th, 2014, 7102 people turned up at the AJ Bell to watch the first game of the new era"
How many were Salford fans? I know, in the group I was with, 50% were not but were there because of the historic occasion. So why suggest we could get the 10146/7102 back as it is a not an indication of the fans we have lost.
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Post by hillbillyred on May 4, 2017 7:12:59 GMT
Sorry but following Salford, for me at least, is emotional. Don't worry Carnster, I'm not going to burn Dr Devil or build a Trump wall on the Irwell. If I consider giving up most of one day of a weekend in a logical way, I would not be watching 26 men throwing a pig skin around on a 2 acre field. I am not logical (ask my wife).
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Carney
May 3, 2017 15:17:39 GMT
Post by hillbillyred on May 3, 2017 15:17:39 GMT
Worded well enough.
Carney was in the wrong and has put his hand up; we move forward knowing that for him the matter has not been settled.
I fear to have my comments of 60+ years examined in detail: like many on here, the cultural conditioning I had, has meant that I am now aware of deep phobics that I have to fight. Yes, that makes me faulty. I hope my constant guarding and suppressing the instinctive features of my upbringing bring some humanity to my dealings with others. That's why I am not screaming for his dismissal. Without contemplation, maybe that could have been me. I also know that some commentators (not on here) get a feeling of superior satisfaction from demanding punishment. The club should not pander to these smug indulgent wishes.
Well done the wise heads on here.
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Post by hillbillyred on May 2, 2017 12:08:45 GMT
I thought being ironic is part of living in the north-west.
Like it or not, Rugby League is a minority sport: it always has been. If you live in Wakefield or Warrington, you do not have a major Association Football Club on your doorstep. The RL team will appeal to you as a point of local loyalty but you would still be more likely to support Barnsley, Leeds, Liverpool or United than the RL club. However if the local RL club was doing well or easy to get to, you would go. Salford is similar in that people will go but the area has a huge football presence and people are more likely to link to United, City, etc. than Salford.
This has been the case for 50+ years. I am away from my copy of Perry Boys. I remember reading in that book of Salford lads supporting United home and away but very few actually going to Salford. Even then , there was not the tradition of support.
So how is a name change going to attract fans? We rarely get into the MEN:I see 4-6 pages of United and City EVERY DAY but only occasional paragraphs of Salford. Do we offer stories to the rest of the media? So change the name and ask, who will notice?
Does having the title Manchester make it better? Why? 30 years ago, perhaps but Salford has now obtained (through the Quays development) an international status. Pity the University couldn't keep up. We can. So why lose this benefit? WE SHOULD BE PUSHING SALFORD RED DEVILS IN THIS MARKET
RL is a local sport: we do not have flights from Norway as Liverpool does or flights from Dublin as United does. Our core is local. Only Wigan has a wider fan base that they can call on in numbers and that's for ahistoric reason and starting to decline. Ignore that and die. Do you think Swinton fans would go to Sale were they to call themselves (say ) Carrington or Oldham fans continue if it was renamed (say) Ashton or Tameside? I feel it could ostracise Salfordians. It will not appeal to new numbers of Mancunians: they'd be already attending if they are attracted.
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Post by hillbillyred on May 2, 2017 6:56:03 GMT
Sorry to disillusion you all but surely the Salford moniker is toxic ... look at the business world: could you see firms like the BBC, Barclays, Bupa, Hydes Brewery, ITV, LateRooms.com, or similar moving or using Salford in their address? No, renaming the club Manchester will reach out to the denizens of Wythenshawe and Clayton who will realise that the clubs like City, United, Sale and Lancashire do not reflect where they come form and throng to Barton. It follows the brilliant brand awareness where everyone passing the Barton stadium realise, from the names on the stadium, that the Red Devils play there.
And we could resurrect the Manchester Cup and play Broughton and Salford.
Manchester Red Devils ... won't be long before Salford City (aka Reds) change their name also.
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Post by hillbillyred on Apr 28, 2017 15:16:23 GMT
careful! That's logical
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Widnes
Apr 28, 2017 15:10:34 GMT
Post by hillbillyred on Apr 28, 2017 15:10:34 GMT
Thanks Toronto for the high shots.
Yes, I fear Ah Van unless Jonesy gets stuck in.
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Carney
Apr 25, 2017 6:51:47 GMT
Post by hillbillyred on Apr 25, 2017 6:51:47 GMT
Two issues on the above arguments: if Evalds does get a temporary berth at another club (as reported in the media), we may not be able to play him, and I feel that the referee's report will be treated far more weighty than any players' words: Mr Smith has a proven standing*.
Sadly, I feel rossy may be right: hell, can't we ever get to Summer without a trauma.
*For those who feel I am making a malicious comment, I am aware of Mr Smith's history.
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Post by hillbillyred on Apr 24, 2017 13:40:44 GMT
Just remembered: Lee's Seasonal Ale is called "Dirty Dozen" : hmm?
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