|
|
Post by scoot on Aug 1, 2017 13:45:54 GMT
RFL are certainly punishing us, we have Jack Smith refereeing us on Friday. This guy had a stinker at Leigh a couple of weeks ago,
I thought he had resigned Super League to ref in the Championship, spend more time with his family. We seem to get Childs, Hicks and Smith most of the time, the three worst refs about. Ganson does not like us
|
|
|
|
Post by tony13 on Aug 1, 2017 14:01:23 GMT
Sorry, scoot, but I think Childs had a good game on Sunday.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carnster on Aug 1, 2017 14:10:23 GMT
I think RL fans in general need to get over their refereeing obsessions. Yes they'll make mistakes. Yes, it may feel like we're being manipulated by evil forces in a great conspiracy.
The truth is, we need to stop being obsessed with refs. If we were, then more may be inclined to become one, therefore improving the small pool of sado-masochists who currently choose to do it. We've all had a moan, but it seems like all we want to talk about is the negative aspects of our game, and this is certainly one of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by JJR on Aug 1, 2017 14:14:20 GMT
I don't think the issue is any single ref. I think Bentham generally just about the best but he had an awful game against us. Although there is an issue of consistency and interpretation (say the high tackle, sliding up from the shoulder) which needs to be sorted.
The game's now too fast and complicated for one man to ref. If the authorities want to improve the game (which is debatable) we now need either two refs as in Oz or the linesmen need to be given extra responsibility with some form of authority, especially taking teams back 10m and forward passes.
There is that much going on and so much professionalism (or in Wigans case, continual stretching of the rules or cheating) that even the top refs struggle. I have a go at them, like most, but I admire them for doing the job.
|
|
|
|
Post by bonitared on Aug 1, 2017 14:17:02 GMT
Correct,there's no conspiracy.
Jack Smith is a very poor referee.
Yes,I accept that there shouldn't be an obsession but the fact that he's a poor ref just happens to be true
|
|
|
|
Post by osrd on Aug 1, 2017 14:23:32 GMT
Sorry, scoot, but I think Child had a good game on Sunday. Tony, although Child gave a slightly improved performance on Sunday his inconsistency still showed through with his inability to see that one side were committing offences at the PTB on a regular basis without being penalised whilst the other team were, he seems more concerned these days with trying to keep his earpiece in his ear,don't the RFL provide decent tape. Players were continually asking Child to look what had gone in in backplay and if the referee and touchjudges cannot see events that thousands of fans can see pity help the game. With regards Jack Smith I feel that he needs a good looking at by Steve Ganson as he has difficulty in even running the touchlne and he was missing things a yard away from himself,one where the Wigan winger touched down with his foot in touch a yard from Jack Smith who had no idea why it had been sent up to the video ref. I agree with scoot,Jack Smith appears to be out of his depth at Superleague level and should be retrained in in a lower division. |
|
|
|
Post by JJR on Aug 1, 2017 14:51:18 GMT
Think the problem with Smith is that there is a shortage of refs and he's the next best.
Perhaps they should pay them more which could increase the quantity and quality.
The money could come from reducing the RFL salaries; Wood gets paid £314,000 + £24,000 into his pension; it went up £62,000 this year alone and non-exec directors are paid good amounts for a few days work a month. The Senior Management Committee also costs £673,377 pa. All this according to League Express.
So where does the trouble really lie?
My view increase refs salaries to make it more attractive and maintain them, train linesmen to a much higher level and 2 refs per game.
Also when video refs are available, use it as they do in RU, where the Video Ref follows play and points out off the ball incidents which can be reviewed live by the on- field ref.
|
|
|
|
Post by bonitared on Aug 1, 2017 15:16:32 GMT
As regards Nigel Wood's pay,I believe if you pay peanuts you hire monkeys.
Conversely,if you pay top dollar for a sport our size then you expect a more impressive executive board
|
|
|
|
Post by hillbillyred on Aug 1, 2017 15:22:10 GMT
" train linesmen to a much higher level" A PET ANNOYANCE OF MINE The problem is that they are not linespersons i.e. assistant referees. They are touch judges with very limited law enforcement: Re the REF: "Enforce Laws 2. The Referees shall enforce the Laws of the Game and may impose penalties for any deliberate breach of the Laws. He shall be the sole judge on matters of fact except those relating to touch and touch in-goal (see para. 11 below)." Re Touch Judges: "Changing decision 9. The Referee judges on matters of fact and shall not subsequently alter those judgments. He may cancel any decision made if prior foul play of which he had no knowledge is reported to him by a Touch Judge. Accept Touch Judge decision 10. The Referee shall accept the decision of an official Touch Judge relating to touch and touch in-goal play and to kicks at goal. Touch Judge 11. Each Touch Judge shall remain in touch, one on each side of, and near to, the playing field except:– (a) when judging kicks at goal (see Section 6) and (b) when reporting a player’s misconduct which has escaped the notice of the Referee. Flag 12. Each Touch Judge must carry an approved flag. Indicating Touch 13. A Touch Judge shall indicate when and where the ball goes into touch by raising his flag and standing opposite the point of entry into touch except in the case of ‘ball back’ (see Section 9 para. 4) when the Touch Judge must indicate that no ground has been gained by waving his flag above his head accentuating the movement in the direction of the kicker’s goal-line. Indicating Touch in-Goal 14. If the ball enters touch in-goal the Touch Judge shall wave the flag across the body and below the waist. With the other hand he/she points to either the goal line or twenty metre line depending on where play should be restarted. Do not point to the player who made the ball dead. Judge kicks at goal 15. Touch Judges shall assist the Referee in judging kicks at goal. (See Section 6 para.10). (b) when reporting a player’s misconduct which has escaped the notice of the Referee. Flag 12. Each Touch Judge must carry an approved flag. Indicating 10 metres 16. When a free kick is being taken, both Touch Judges shall take up a position near the touch line ten metres beyond the mark to act as markers for the team which is required to retire. Official Inquiry 17. In cases where circumstances in connection with the match are likely to be made the subject of official investigation, the Referee and Touch Judges shall report to the investigating authority only and shall refrain from expressing criticism or comment through other channels.".... "Consult Touch Judge 2. Before giving a decision, it is permissible for the Referee to consult either or both Touch Judges." "Report misconduct quickly 11. (b) If a Touch Judge wishes to report a player’s misconduct he should attract the Referee’s attention as quickly as possible in order to avoid an unnecessary continuation of play. Any subsequent penalty is awarded where the offence occurred and not where play is subsequently stopped. No undue interference A Touch Judge must not unduly interfere with the Referee’s control of the game by reporting incidents which have obviously been seen by the Referee." from www.rugby-league.com/the_rfl/rules/laws_of_the_game/match_officialsPlease note the duties of a touch judge: nothing to do with forward passes or off-sides and note the last quote. Sorry for pasting in detail but the links have been given before but very obviously not read. |
|
|
|
Post by JJR on Aug 1, 2017 15:54:46 GMT
Apologies for the use of the wrong term 'touch judges' not 'linesmen'. But you seem to have missed the point completely, you seem to want to dwell on what they do, it's about what they could do that's important
Nobody is arguing about what a touch judge does. If you read my note, you will see I propose to train linesmen to a much higher level. Sorry I should have spelled it out...............I would then expect them to be able to take on much more responsibility i.e. a change in their duties e.g forward passes, better enforcement of 10m etc in order that they become 'referees assistants'. The whole point was to give more help to refs not to argue that they are not fulfilling their existing roles.
|
|
|
|
Post by salfordfan on Aug 1, 2017 21:09:23 GMT
I think Jack Smith has officiated as a referee in our games more than any other Super League club. His last game before stepping down was against us after the Carney incident. He then reappears refereeing and is first game back is us again.
We may finish nearer to eighth at the end of the season than fourth but we have previously been 2nd in the league. How high in the league do you have to be to get the pick of the officials. The penalty count in the game at home against Warrington was 13:4 for Warrington & we were the home team! These are the facts.
|
|
|
|
Post by JJR on Aug 1, 2017 21:59:05 GMT
The penalty count at HT at Wakefield was 9:1 with Tasi in the bin. The ref, Hick. The penalty count at Cas recently was v much in favour of Cas, the ref Bentham, in fact we lost Wella to a team penalty.
Is the world of refs against us or is our ref advisor..........
|
|
|
|
Post by hillbillyred on Aug 2, 2017 7:03:00 GMT
Cheers Redjack for the reply: what you are suggesting is a change in the laws of the game and it is one I have been long in agreement with.
Sadly it will not happen. We have a shortage of referees. Anyone who has refereed will know how what a thankless task (both words chosen) it is. The abuse a ref gets has to be witnessed... listen to the speccies at most amateur games. Remember the touch judges in the professional game usually are referees and do referee lower divisions.
But for now the laws are the laws. We fiddle with them too often but really have not had a full review for a long time.
|
|
|
|
Post by tony13 on Aug 2, 2017 7:29:01 GMT
Sorry, scoot, but I think Child had a good game on Sunday. Tony, although Child gave a slightly improved performance on Sunday his inconsistency still showed through with his inability to see that one side were committing offences at the PTB on a regular basis without being penalised whilst the other team were, he seems more concerned these days with trying to keep his earpiece in his ear,don't the RFL provide decent tape. Players were continually asking Child to look what had gone in in backplay and if the referee and touchjudges cannot see events that thousands of fans can see pity help the game. With regards Jack Smith I feel that he needs a good looking at by Steve Ganson as he has difficulty in even running the touchlne and he was missing things a yard away from himself,one where the Wigan winger touched down with his foot in touch a yard from Jack Smith who had no idea why it had been sent up to the video ref. I agree with scoot,Jack Smith appears to be out of his depth at Superleague level and should be retrained in in a lower division. He got the big decisions spot on. "Offences at the ptb" is one of those little things that Wigan do so well. They've been doing it for so long (remember Ellery Hanley's hands in at the ptb - every time!) that they've got it down to perfection. We haven't done it for quite so long and we often get it wrong. It may not be the ref's inconsistency, but our poor execution of attempted cheating (a bit tongue-in-cheek there). Refs make mistakes. I don't believe they do this deliberately, they are just human. I still think that he had a good game, but I'll accept that, perhaps, he was conned by Wigan's experts. |
|
|
|
Post by JJR on Aug 2, 2017 7:29:59 GMT
HB, one of the ways is to get more money into the refs system. If you look at what the managers/ administrators take out of the game, according to LE in excess of £1,200,000, the money's there for those who run the business. Some of it needs redistributing into training and attracting refs. Pay peanuts.......
Woods salary, assuming its true, has gone up £62,000 this year alone.
But if the RL doesn't invest in refs, the game increases in speed and 'professionalism' and the game dies or becomes a lottery, as it's going at the moment. At SL level they should be working towards, 2 refs, 2 refs assistants and a video ref at each match. A long time off but that, in my view, that's the direction.
The RL is constantly trying to make the game quicker and slicker, I honestly don't know how one ref per match keeps up with it. So at the moment we just have to accept what we get, a bunch of guys working on their own doing their best.
Agree with the views on Child's he had a decent game and as T13 said, Wigan's 'professionalism' hands on ball, lying on gains them time at every tackle, Leeds are the same. So let's work on professionalism, not buy new players!!
|
|
