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Post by redunderthebed on Jun 24, 2017 9:44:54 GMT
Do people think Carney was told not to control the game or something? That would seem like a strange instruction
We absolutely missed Dobson and I'd like to think he would managed the game better but we lost it in defence not with mistakes with the ball. I don't think he would have tried the chip that Lui did at the end but probably neither would Carney, or Lui 9 times out of 10! The fact is we were totally on control of that game from about 25 minutes to 70 minutes. After saints got their try, Saints didn't get a sniff until the set they got the penalty before their 2nd try and after that they just clicked and we couldn't handle them. Carney had a strong game, his kicking game was mostly excellent, Lui had an immense game (especially in defence). Neither of them are game managers like Dobson but they both bring things he doesn't. If Carney isn't controlling a game where he starts at scrum half, that is down to no-one except Carney (or the opposition not allowing him to).
By thew way I'm not saying he didn't control the game and I think he needs more games to properly gel with his team mates (we dominated that game without ever being at our most fluid in attack - partly down to Saints defence, partly down to the passing moves not being quite 100%) - I just don't understand what people think he needs to be given or what he could have done to stop that happening last night
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Post by dixon13 on Jun 24, 2017 9:56:24 GMT
Well as Dixon13 would no doubt confirm we missed Dobson No bath we did not miss Dobson we wouldn't have won if he had been playing on the night not good enough. |
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Post by JJR on Jun 24, 2017 10:12:05 GMT
Red underthe bed i think with Dobson he organises the field so well that when he doesn't play we really miss him. Sadly Carney hasn't played with the team long enough to do it. It's taken Dobson two seasons.
Saints had a brilliant quarter at the end and I think more organisation with the defence might have done it. Salford seemed to bunch too much in the last quarter but also Smith was back to his best in that time organising Saints.
Also I've never heard so much whistle but the ref seemed reasonably consistent.
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Post by redunderthebed on Jun 24, 2017 10:21:59 GMT
redjack - i agree we miss Dobson. I just don't understand what people mean when they say he should be given control of the team, as if he is told to play scrum half and not control the game or something?? I agree that it will take more game time for Carney to be as effective as Dobson for us but i thought he had another good game last night
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Post by JJR on Jun 24, 2017 10:58:50 GMT
Yes he's class but he's learning what the team is about and can't organise it like Dobson does. But he's played at the top level in Oz and maybe he could be allowed to put some of his organisational experience in from other teams.
We seem a bit too much system oriented at times. I get frustrated when we seem to not pass the ball for very long periods of time but that might come next year. We've made fantastic strides this year.
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Post by dixon13 on Jun 24, 2017 11:16:16 GMT
Yes he's class but he's learning what the team is about and can't organise it like Dobson does. But he's played at the top level in Oz and maybe he could be allowed to put some of his organisational experience in from other teams. We seem a bit too much system oriented at times. I get frustrated when we seem to not pass the ball for very long periods of time but that might come next year. We've made fantastic strides this year. The way it is being touted on this forum.If Dobson does not play in the semi-final we might as well stay at home.I don't think we are a one man band far from it.We did not loose last night because Dobson did not play.We were ten points to the good against a team on their fan's say so have been crap this season who have sacked the coach.Lets have it right last nights performance was not good enough for a team supposedly looking at winning something.I would think Watson for what ever he says,will be thinking the same. |
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Post by redunderthebed on Jun 24, 2017 11:19:24 GMT
maybe he could be allowed to put some of his organisational experience in from other teams. [ This is the bit I don't get. Who do you think is not allowing him to do that? |
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Post by JJR on Jun 24, 2017 11:54:11 GMT
It's a team game and the team has a plan and a system which I'm sure he doesn't fully know yet. And therefore he can't organise the team as Dobson does. But he does have experience of other systems. He just seemed to play on the fringe a bit last night.
Nobody seemed to be lining the team up as Dobson does. Possibly Lui could have done that, but didn't seem to.
The team 'system' is the coaching teams remit.
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Post by prestwichred on Jun 24, 2017 11:56:08 GMT
The two games Carney has played from the start he has been well below par. I don't get all this he is world class stuff, Catalans got rid and can you honestly remember anything he did there?
Dobson controls and calms the team down, Lui is the perfect foil for him.
It was the Saints of old in that last 10 minutes and a tired Salford could not handle them.
Lui was MOM before that brain fart and that one moment should not detract from the excellent season he has had.
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Post by 13 on Jun 24, 2017 12:02:08 GMT
The two games Carney has played from the start he has been well below par. I don't get all this he is world class stuff, Catalans got rid and can you honestly remember anything he did there? Dobson controls and calms the team down, Lui is the perfect foil for him. It was the Saints of old in that last 10 minutes and a tired Salford could not handle them. Lui was MOM before that brain fart and that one moment should not detract from the excellent season he has had. He wasn't below par against Warrington away...... |
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Post by JJR on Jun 24, 2017 12:24:23 GMT
Watson said he was happy with Carney and Lui but that effectively the team thought they'd won; that's where Dobson is good in organising and leading.
Carney has a fantastic passing and kicking game and he was having a word with forwards to try and get the timing right. I think you can only judge him when he's had a full off season with the team. This time last year Lui wasn't at his best. Interesting that Lui seemed to play scrum half a lot last night.
On a positive note good to see the born and bred players starting Lannon, Bibby and Evalds and of course Walne is a revelation and Woods learning all the time off our 3 half backs. Looks good going forward.
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Post by dixon13 on Jun 24, 2017 12:49:26 GMT
The two games Carney has played from the start he has been well below par. I don't get all this he is world class stuff, Catalans got rid and can you honestly remember anything he did there? Dobson controls and calms the team down, Lui is the perfect foil for him. It was the Saints of old in that last 10 minutes and a tired Salford could not handle them. Lui was MOM before that brain fart and that one moment should not detract from the excellent season he has had. Are you saying Dobson is world class.He his a good bread and butter player certainly not world class.Thurston is World class. |
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Post by bandgeekmafia78 on Jun 24, 2017 13:22:12 GMT
I thought Carney was decent last night. Set up 2 tries for Evalds, made some intelligent kicks and was unlucky not to get a 40/20 when we were cruising.
I don't think half-back is a postion we need to be concerned with that much really. Maybe a World Class winger and another Kopczak-esque prop is what we should be in the market for.
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Post by tony13 on Jun 24, 2017 13:32:28 GMT
I think IW will have learnt a lot last night. He'll certainly be able to identify areas where we need to strengthen next season and organise his recruitment accordingly. I was staggered when I found we'd lost after being well clear with ten to go, but as long as we learn from such problems and address them, we'll be alright.
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Post by prestwichred on Jun 24, 2017 14:01:52 GMT
The two games Carney has played from the start he has been well below par. I don't get all this he is world class stuff, Catalans got rid and can you honestly remember anything he did there? Dobson controls and calms the team down, Lui is the perfect foil for him. It was the Saints of old in that last 10 minutes and a tired Salford could not handle them. Lui was MOM before that brain fart and that one moment should not detract from the excellent season he has had. Are you saying Dobson is world class.He his a good bread and butter player certainly not world class.Thurston is World class. I never said he was world class but he is a better player then Carney who people seem to think is world class |
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