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Post by JJR on Aug 2, 2021 7:29:07 GMT
Probably needs its own thread, so just some thoughts to provoke discussion.As I see it the Proposal is;
Two top leagues of 10 teams, with possibly North and South Leagues below that, all seemingly led by Sky’s needs.
This year no relegation but promotion so 14 teams in next years comp.
When the 10 team league is operating then possibly some issues:
* Fixtures, home and away plus Magic, would yield just 19 games; so would it be play each other 3x as in Scottish Premiership?
* Funding, would there be a much higher level of comp so possibly more money for teams in the second tier
* Us, competition will be much more fierce, we’re losing our ground, we have no benefactor, the club seemingly fail to raise major income, and we lose about 19 players each year inc our best: can we survive? In fact how can we progress from a survival/ feeder club to a stable top 6 club?
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Post by salfordredforever on Aug 2, 2021 11:49:30 GMT
I`ll throw my hat in the ring regards this discussion.
Unfortunately even the most die hard rugby league supporter is getting more and more disillusioned with the game overall with the current climate we are all in.
It`s not going to get any easier and all the talk about rule changes and debate regards promotion/relegation is quite simply unfair to all.
I am not for playing a team 3 times and loop fixtures...i just see that as an unfair advantage and detracts from a league that would be home/away fixtures.
In order to protect teams now and all give some teams an incentive....increase the SL to 14 teams.
The 12 that are in there already, including Leigh and add the winners of the championship (Toulouse) as this would hopefully have a direct impact on expanding the game in France with Cats v Tou etc and also then invite one from Featherstone/Bradford or York who have SL ambitions and whoever can put a SL case forward.
At least then it would or could open further opportunities and give teams 26 games (home and away) with a magic weekend fixture determined on the league standings at the time.
The trouble is that we have a combination of uncertainty, rule changes, possibly no world cup and COVID.
If we are not careful we are in danger of losing this sport for ever.
We need some sort of competition so the game is an attraction...I`m sick of seeing Wigan V Saints or similar and if we are not careful the only teams left will be saints men v saints women. (if it were I`d probably skip the game and go straight into the showers!)
The game is an absolute joke at the moment and its about time someone at the top made a blood decision instead of speculation.
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Post by chief on Aug 2, 2021 13:31:24 GMT
In a 12 taem league with current Sky money, SRD can't afford to pay the rent. On reduced income split between 14 teams we will be cutting some big money earners from the playing staff.
14 team league with reduced income from Sky will make this the case for a few others as well.
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Post by john964 on Aug 2, 2021 13:39:36 GMT
I suppose like most things devil will be in the detail. I'm fed up with all the structure changes, loop fixtures, and yoyo promtions/ or risk going bust ( poor Yorkshire stadiums etc) but see both positives and negatives in the rumours.
+
Going to 14 teams next year, helps problem of covid being unfair, and reduces loop fixtures. Also buys time to come to considered resolution.
Spreading the money to more clubs, hopefully more stability, if select few don't get greedy.
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2 leagues of 10? Surely that's just division 1 and 2. Also is 20 spreading the jam to thin. Plus less fixtures, or play 3 times (loop again). Will both French teams be in same division?
I remember Dave Hadfield suggested two regional conferences of 8 (14h/a) plus 8 opposite conference (22 fixtures), magic?. Spreads money over 16 not 20, no loop. Top clubs from each conference into play offs. You have more winners 2 conference winners plus super league winner.
So is proposal for 2 divisions of 10, 2 conferences or simple div1,2?
Think 14 next year good idea, but 2023 needs thinking about,Usual problems again Promotion/Relegation and how is money divided. But also how many fixtures will make up a season, as I think loop fixtures need to go.
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Post by Carnster on Aug 2, 2021 13:44:11 GMT
Yeah, loop fixtures are, and always will be, an awful idea.
Biggest problem is self interest with regards to sorting out our awful league structure and sharing of funds. We desperately need the richer clubs to forfeit a little money to even the playing field. Maybe allow a club to opt-out of the salary cap arrangements, or less drastically, forfeit a percentage of money to have a larger cap which would then lead to poorer clubs getting a larger piece of the pie. This helps the poorer clubs pull themselves up and gives them a chance at full cap and helps secure their financial position so that they can concentrate on long term improvement rather than short term survival. It might help to provide incentive for clubs to develop their finances without fear of disappearing completely and eventually allow them further down the line to increase their cap as the richer clubs have. It might also be the incentive for rich backers to get into the game, knowing that they could spend with a higher cap and look to slow down the player drain to the NRL and/or allow higher quality recruitment from Australia.
Just a thought.
The problem basically boils down to how we can have a fair and more even league rather than the product on the pitch. That sells itself. Nothing will change while the rich owners of Saints, Wigan, Leeds, Hull, Warrington and maybe Catalan wield too much power over decisions that they see threatening the status quo of their dominance in the league.
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Post by dentonred on Aug 2, 2021 15:49:28 GMT
Currently there is not enough money in the sport due to lack of sponsorship, tv revenue and general exposure. Sky are seemingly leading the charge calling for change but are paying less in for more control. The sport has had chances to make changes but too often the same club owners veto these in favour of the norm, which generally favour their clubs.
Unless drastic changes are made then the sport we all love will be gone in less than 5 years.
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Post by chief on Aug 2, 2021 18:34:05 GMT
Currently there is not enough money in the sport due to lack of sponsorship, tv revenue and general exposure. Sky are seemingly leading the charge calling for change but are paying less in for more control. The sport has had chances to make changes but too often the same club owners veto these in favour of the norm, which generally favour their clubs. Unless drastic changes are made then the sport we all love will be gone in less than 5 years. I would have “liked” this but,I don’t like it, I just agree with it. |
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Post by Redrum on Aug 2, 2021 20:07:22 GMT
I think the RFL are missing a trick with the ppv audience at home that cannot get to matches. This one league idea was a success and what better way to generate money for the club and the sport than to offer it each week for a fee? With these extra funds clubs can invest in better players attracting a wider audience, a 14 team league with no loop games is also a sensible idea.
Finally, the marketing of the sport is diabolical, infact like no other. The challenge cup and GF barely get mentioned, the rfl and sky need to raise the profile of the sport because the more interest leads to more money from fans and sponsors alike.
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Post by chang on Aug 2, 2021 20:53:49 GMT
It’s like Groundhog Day with this conversation! They need to pick something and stick with it. This grim reaper of uncertainty isn’t doing anyone any favours except the big 4/5).
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Post by dentonred on Aug 2, 2021 20:59:40 GMT
Honestly think that Rugby League massively missed a trick in not getting Eddie Hearn involved a few years back. Back when Salford were at the forefront of Friday Night Lights matches at the Willows (before my time), the sport was paraded as glitz and glamour and the place to be. Got to think that Eddie would have used the great night out vibe to get fans back in the seats and really marketed the **** out of the game, hell if he can whip up a crowd to make the likes if Van Gerwen and Taylor come across like roman gladiators what could he have done with some of the players we have in our game today.
Also the players dont help either in that we always hear of some players being great characters and a good laugh but stick a camera in front of them and they come across as wooden and stale, a little personality would certainly go a long, long way.
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Post by Redrum on Aug 3, 2021 7:30:33 GMT
And just to reitterate my point, Friday night 2 games on and nothing on sky. I have 3 kids and can't get to the dw stadium but would happily pay £10 to watch the lads especially if some of that fee goes to the club. Playing in empty stadiums with zero airtime because of sky is a huge part of the problem.
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Post by cyclopsred on Aug 3, 2021 9:44:26 GMT
Years ago Maurice Lindsay proposed changes ( including mergers on both sides of the Pennines ) were rejected and here we are again. If I remember correctly Salford would have become Manchester. Rl's wish to cling on to the past was ill-advised and the game is suffering as a consequence. The NRL proved radical change could be successful despite strong opposition.
RL cannot continue as it is spending time going round in circles. Elstone's proposals were binned as too radical and Mr. K gave it up as a bad job. The Hearns interest was monumental but once again wasn't seen to be quite right - whatever that may mean. New money has to be attracted and fiddling about with numbers of teams won't achieve that. The salary cap has to be raised substantially and franchising is the way forward. Am I certain this would work ? No but at least it might give less weaithy clubs the chance to compete. Would still love to know what Mr. Hearns was proposing.
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Post by giasf on Aug 3, 2021 12:03:55 GMT
The piece I am struggling with is the proposed closing of the gap in funding between the top and second tier. This makes sense from a sustainability point of view if you keep P&R, but if your objective is to increase the quality of the top tier I don't see how you do both when the overall pot is shrinking? Seems contradictory to me.
The fact SKY have stepped in and seem to be dictating terms says much about the state of the leadership of the sport in the UK. When the NRL were having to re-negotiate with their broadcast partners last year it was a far more balanced conversation.
Regardless of what the plan ends up being it'll never work if it isn't (a) committed to for at least 10 years and (b) includes a significant amount of investment in medium to long term projects such as engaging younger fans and increasing the quality and quantity of academies/pathways.
My tuppence: supportive of a reduction in teams in the top flight as long as the second tier is also given a broadcast deal (be it SKY or elsewhere) - we need more exposure at that level because there's a cracking comp there. Need a robust rep calendar - I still believe War of the Roses is viable if given the correct lead time and broad support.
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Post by gadger on Aug 3, 2021 13:51:09 GMT
Unfortunately I don’t see any way out of the current dire situation without a major change, and I don’t see any major change not negatively affecting Salford. If someone like Eddie Hearn for example came in, or NRL, they don’t care about history or existing fans, they want money and new fans. I suppose it’s currently like watching a slow death of the sport anyway, so either way I think we’re screwed!
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Post by dixon13 on Aug 3, 2021 18:35:46 GMT
Since the start of Super League,the game as gone backward.From Lyndsey's vision of Milan Paris and Barcelona Liverpool and Manchester and Hull in the League to where we are now settling for a 10 team league.All them years wasted and the initial sky money down the drain.We have had more bodies at Red Hall than their is Weaste sky's money is being diveverted to football all other sports on their are just fillers,I went to Wigan last Sunday a Loca Derby the crowd was 9,000 yes brilliant by our standards but when they first moved there they were getting 17 000 the last season at Central Park they were getting 21 000 even they have lost fans its to be hoped these money men in Rugby League don't run there businesses the same way they would be on the bread line.
It's not only League if you take the Premiership away from Union its one man and is dog,last season they stopped giving meaningful money to the championship and lower,Sale average 7 000 at the AJB my seat cost me £20 if I was watching Sale the same seat is £40
It looks to me like they have finally given up on expansion just say Toronto were still about were would they fit into the new structure,I don't have the answer but what is worrying I don't think Davey and the rest have.
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