|
Post by boltonred on May 22, 2018 8:27:49 GMT
What Watson isn’t doing is telling them to give daft penalties away, drop the bell, fail to play the ball properly, kick so poorly and so on Before anyone looks at Watson the players need to have a long hard look at themselves Utterly spot on. Yes i have concerns about how the team cannot seem to change tactic from one out rugby and that is squarely in the managers park, but half of our problems are from basic errors that there is nothing Watson can do about.
|
|
|
Catalans
May 22, 2018 10:44:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by dixon13 on May 22, 2018 10:44:19 GMT
What Watson isn’t doing is telling them to give daft penalties away, drop the bell, fail to play the ball properly, kick so poorly and so on Before anyone looks at Watson the players need to have a long hard look at themselves Utterly spot on. Yes i have concerns about how the team cannot seem to change tactic from one out rugby and that is squarely in the managers park, but half of our problems are from basic errors that there is nothing Watson can do about. What a great job a Rugby League coach.If you do well you are fantastic if you do badly it's the players fault.Absolutely a great job.
|
|
|
Post by chief on May 22, 2018 11:03:45 GMT
A poor workman always blames his tools (and all the "tools" were supposed to have gone to Leigh!!)
|
|
|
Post by gunner on May 22, 2018 11:17:48 GMT
A few thoughts Today was absolutely not good enough. We obviously have been nowhere near good enough for weeks At the start of the season our forwards were winning their battle most games but our backs, half backs in particular (including Lui), were letting us down. That meant we either won or lost narrowly Today and last few games we’ve lost the forward battle. We’ve stopped making many metres forward and we’re ‘losing the collision’ in defence so the other team is comfortably making 8-15 metres on every drive and playing the ball before our defenders are back on their feet and we concede penalties for offside and holding down. This is the most worrying thing as it is the strongest part of our squad Coaches depend on results and we’re not getting them so clearly Watson is at risk. But I honestly don’t think the team are playing to his instructions. He’s said himself today and after other games. The tactics can be seen in the attacking shapes when we are on top. Those are not positions that players adopt without being coached and working on it in training. However once we go behind we revert to one up rugby really quickly. That is what players do without being coached. They get nervous about mistakes, wanting to show they are doing their bit, hesitate instead of pushing up and supporting, that kind of thing. Also when you make as many errors as we did against Leigh for instance you can’t get into position to get the attacking moves going so you never get out of the one man drives I suspect Watson has looked at the skills we’ve got and told his players that when the other team are on top to simplify our game and play territorial rugby - get up the field, kick long/dead and keep them down there, try and force an error. All teams do that at times, some more than others. Unfortunately our players are not defending well enough to force errors or keep teams in their own half. So we keep having to attack from deep ourselves which brings more pressure and repeats of what I said above I do think that Watson needs to look at his player fitness and their attitude to going behind. That’s part of his job to make sure they are up for the fight and at the moment they don’t look it. They remind me of how they were after the points deduction a couple pile of years ago - like ‘why should we bother, the world is against us’. We know that ended up in being seconds from going down. So Watson and the senior players need to pull themselves out of that as soon as possible What Watson isn’t doing is telling them to give daft penalties away, drop the bell, fail to play the ball properly, kick so poorly and so on Before anyone looks at Watson the players need to have a long hard look at themselves If we are good Watson a great coach.If we are not its the players fault someone else brings the players in.He as a job for life then.He would have been sacked ages ago anywhere else. Dixon I understand your argument & yes in most other super league clubs there would have been a change by now, changing for changing sake will not be the answer, we have no funds & I don't think I could see any coach worth is salts coming to Salford & risking his reputation. I don't think any coach good or bad will make much difference with no academy & 20 odd players to pool from. We all recognized Tim Sheens was a good coach, he is currently struggling at HKR & they have a lot more funds than us. in rugby you need good funding to bring in the best to succeed at the highest level, as frustrating as it may seem this is reality. Finally, I not a blinded Watson lover, just pragmatic about where the club is on 1500 dedicated fans trying to keep hold of the assets with vultures circling to pick off the cream.
|
|
|
Catalans
May 22, 2018 12:21:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by dixon13 on May 22, 2018 12:21:19 GMT
If we are good Watson a great coach.If we are not its the players fault someone else brings the players in.He as a job for life then.He would have been sacked ages ago anywhere else. Dixon I understand your argument & yes in most other super league clubs there would have been a change by now, changing for changing sake will not be the answer, we have no funds & I don't think I could see any coach worth is salts coming to Salford & risking his reputation. I don't think any coach good or bad will make much difference with no academy & 20 odd players to pool from. We all recognized Tim Sheens was a good coach, he is currently struggling at HKR & they have a lot more funds than us. in rugby you need good funding to bring in the best to succeed at the highest level, as frustrating as it may seem this is reality. Finally, I not a blinded Watson lover, just pragmatic about where the club is on 1500 dedicated fans trying to keep hold of the assets with vultures circling to pick off the cream. Yes I agree a lot with what you say. What I disagree with is that nobody could do better with what we have.I have watched a few championship matches this season I have seen some better coaching ideas than I have seen from Watson all season just my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by scoot on May 22, 2018 13:39:05 GMT
Yes I agree a lot with what you say. What I disagree with is that nobody could do better with what we have.I have watched a few championship matches this season I have seen some better coaching ideas than I have seen from Watson all season just my opinion. Needs to rip up the game plan, it's not working and it is boring to watch, other teams have sussed us out. We need to be expansive, throw the ball about more often, we might as well go down fighting with a bit of flair.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 16:18:12 GMT
We have in effect only had the same 2 game plans for the last season and half, last year it was GOB hitting the line late and causing havoc at first until all and sundry caught on and nullified it and then this term it has been an early season rendition of the first plan and then when that continued to fail we went to the old tried and trust 5 drives and a kick.
Have said it before and I'll say it again just go for it Friday, tell JLJ we have switched the game to an away fixture at Hudds and say the team will meet him there and that he is picking up Griffin on the way.
Wood and Lui in the halves, if Tomkins does need a spell use McCarthy there,I'd play big Ben from the start in the 2nd row with Lannon on the bench and try to hit them out wide as often as possible to negate the lack of pace we have in the backs by tiring there's out.
Hudds will have a game plan worked out to negate our 5 drives tactic, simple do the opposite and leave them with a plan B to impliment on the run.
|
|
|
Catalans
May 22, 2018 18:30:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by redunderthebed on May 22, 2018 18:30:17 GMT
Dixon13 - can you show me anyone on this thread who has said none of the problems are down to Watson cos I can’t see any. So I’m not sure who you’re arguing with. Given you quoted me in your reply I assume you’re saying that I’ve said that. I haven’t. I’ve said some of it is down to Watson and some of it is down to the players. I know you like things nice and simple and to pin everything on one person. It used to be O’Brien but now he’s gone it’s watson
So to reply in a similar vein. It must be great being a rugby league player. When you win you’re the best player in the world, when you lose it’s all the coach’s fault.
I assume from your reply that you think Watson is telling the players to knock on when playing the ball, kick badly and fail to score from a 4 on 1 overlap 3 feet from the line? I guess you’re right. He’s probably sick of trying to mould a team when the club keeping pulling the rug from under him so he’s coaching the players to be bad so he gets sacked
|
|
|
Post by redunderthebed on May 22, 2018 19:05:28 GMT
Other coaches who haven’t been sacked despite having rubbish teams with poor results.....
(All results before play offs to compare like with like)
Dennis Betts. 2016 (Widnes ‘great year’ being at top end of table early on our million pound game year) - won same number of games as us - 10. 2017 - won 8 games fewer than us. 2018 - won 2 fewer games than us so far. Still employed at Widnes
Steve McNamara - disastrous start. Still employed.
There’s 2. That are demonstrably worse that Watson. Next 2 are considered significantly better
Lee Radford - Hull finished 11th in his first year in charge (2014) and 7th in his second. Was generally considered a failure given how much hull were spending and the players at his disposal. Hull fans demonstrating for him to be sacked. Club kept faith and bought more players. Year after finished 1st
Chris Chester - 2016 - won same number of games as us. Disastrous top 8. 2017 - won same number of games as us. did better in top 8. This year while we’re having a nightmare season and Wakey are going great guns they sit a huge 1 place and 2 points above us despite having at least as strong a squad as last year. Arguably the biggest under performers in the league
None of this means that questions shouldn’t be asked of Watson about how poorly we have been playing since this time last year. None of this means Watson is the best coach ever. He isn’t. None of this means somebody else couldn’t do better. But I think it offers a bit of perspective.
Watson’s 3 years in charge - 2016 we would have been in top 8 but for salary cap. 2017 - finished 4th in proper season but with poor play offs. 2018 - considerably weaker squad (some cos of poor recruitment some cos of selling or lack of money to recruit) - 8th so far.
Again just to offer some perspective when people say he’s only still there because he’s a local lad and no one else would have got away with it. It just isn’t true. By all means criticise where it’s due but making stuff up doesn’t help anyone
|
|
|
Catalans
May 22, 2018 19:14:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by redunderthebed on May 22, 2018 19:14:50 GMT
Under Watson we have tailed of significantly in most seasons.If we do that this time we are doomed.While I accept that there have been issues at the club during all his seasons they are not the only causes. If you look at last season we had probably the best squad we have had for years and yet by the end of the season we were a shadow of earlier in the year.The worrying thing is we are now losing against teams we should and have to beat.I think at least some if not all the blame for recruitment and squad balance lies at the coaches door.We now have 7 wins in the last 22 games or thereabouts.It has to be said that there are very few coaches who stay at a club for a very long period without losing their mojo and frankly I think we are there now.As for replacements but maybe promote Gleeson?Possibly an old coach with a point to prove or a young one with ambition.We need an Allardyce of R L. I agree that the way we have faded in last 2 years is the biggest concern. Watson has said that the pre season training last year was focused on making us safe early season so we faded later on the year when injuries and fatigue set in. He said they trained differently this year to peak later in season. It feels like we’re leaving it late 😊. But we won’t know til we get there....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 19:20:28 GMT
Under Watson we have tailed of significantly in most seasons.If we do that this time we are doomed.While I accept that there have been issues at the club during all his seasons they are not the only causes. If you look at last season we had probably the best squad we have had for years and yet by the end of the season we were a shadow of earlier in the year.The worrying thing is we are now losing against teams we should and have to beat.I think at least some if not all the blame for recruitment and squad balance lies at the coaches door.We now have 7 wins in the last 22 games or thereabouts.It has to be said that there are very few coaches who stay at a club for a very long period without losing their mojo and frankly I think we are there now.As for replacements but maybe promote Gleeson?Possibly an old coach with a point to prove or a young one with ambition.We need an Allardyce of R L. I agree that the way we have faded in last 2 years is the biggest concern. Watson has said that the pre season training last year was focused on making us safe early season so we faded later on the year when injuries and fatigue set in. He said they trained differently this year to peak later in season. It feels like we’re leaving it late 😊. But we won’t know til we get there.... What does look troubling is that the team spirit looks shot, that's not down to Watson but being on a downward spiral for some time, do wonder if a win would rectify or just paper over some cracks.
As for hitting our straps late on in the season all that does is put us fans through the ringer in the middle 8's again, don't know if my ticker ould stand more abjectness like last time.
|
|
|
Catalans
May 22, 2018 22:12:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by dixon13 on May 22, 2018 22:12:44 GMT
Under Watson we have tailed of significantly in most seasons.If we do that this time we are doomed.While I accept that there have been issues at the club during all his seasons they are not the only causes. If you look at last season we had probably the best squad we have had for years and yet by the end of the season we were a shadow of earlier in the year.The worrying thing is we are now losing against teams we should and have to beat.I think at least some if not all the blame for recruitment and squad balance lies at the coaches door.We now have 7 wins in the last 22 games or thereabouts.It has to be said that there are very few coaches who stay at a club for a very long period without losing their mojo and frankly I think we are there now.As for replacements but maybe promote Gleeson?Possibly an old coach with a point to prove or a young one with ambition.We need an Allardyce of R L. I agree that the way we have faded in last 2 years is the biggest concern. Watson has said that the pre season training last year was focused on making us safe early season so we faded later on the year when injuries and fatigue set in. He said they trained differently this year to peak later in season. It feels like we’re leaving it late 😊. But we won’t know til we get there.... All I said was I am sure their is someone who can do better with this lot than the present incumbent It dosent take a genius to coach five drives and a kick and that's all we have.Nobody is going to pay good money to watch it.
|
|
|
Post by JJR on May 23, 2018 7:48:01 GMT
You've got the job Dixon.
|
|
|
Catalans
May 23, 2018 10:55:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by dixon13 on May 23, 2018 10:55:05 GMT
You've got the job Dixon. [br Thanks.My first change is at scrum half you are in you don't have to be much good to be better than the one Watson got from Australia.
|
|
|
Post by JJR on May 23, 2018 11:48:46 GMT
Seems he's taken your advice. Well done.
|
|